G4 shutdown/ restart problem

Previously, PeterG wrote:

My G4 has recently refused to Restart or Shut Down from the Apple menu. All the applications quit but I am left with the blue background and have to press the power button and hold down for a few seconds until it switches off. [the volume also sets to mute when I re-boot] I can get it to sleep using the Apple menu or the power key on the monitor. It only appears that the Restart and Shut Down which are the problems.

I have tried...

resting the NVRAM & PRAM -battery reads 3.7v [cmd-opt-p-r] [cmd-opt-n-v]
removing and re-seating the memory
removed all unnecessary peripherals
run Applejack for Tiger
run TechTool Pro v4.0.4
run DiskWarrior v3.0.3
started up in Safe mode

some software -and yes I have checked it. Could it be the upgrade from 10.4 to 10.4.1?

Any help/ suggestions much appreciated.

[System- macintosh G4; OSX 10.4.1; 1GHz; 896 Mb SDRAM]

One more thing to at least try:

Open the G4 case, (carefully ground yourself by touching the metal case of the power supply), find and press the PMU (power management unit) ONCE. It is located near the battery.

Restart. Hope it works for you.

Otherwise I have no clue, except install OSX again (Archive & install).

G'Day
Morenuf

PeterG wrote:

<Snipped Text>

I have a reproducable similar crash when I install Content Barrier. I also found a cause from TechTool before I updated it to the latest version.

Try removing third party extensions first, along with unplugging any non-Apple USB devices - these are a big well known cause.

PeterG wrote:

<Snipped Text>

Ok, just a thought. It worked Ok on my G5, but I must admit that our G3 iMac has the same problem, and I have no idea why.

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:30:49 +0100, PeterG wrote (in a previous article):

My G4 has recently refused to Restart or Shut Down from the Apple menu. All the applications quit but I am left with the blue background and have to press the power button and hold down for a few seconds until it switches off.

[the volume also sets to mute when I re-boot] I can get it to sleep using the

Apple menu or the power key on the monitor. It only appears that the Restart and Shut Down which are the problems.

I had a similar problem..related to tiger and firewire hard disks...but you said you removed all peripherals...

PeterG wrote:

<Snipped Text>

Indeed. If you check the Apple.com forums, you'll see it's more common than this too :-(

On Mon, 23 May 2005 22:21:04 +0100, PeterG wrote (in a previous article):

Zip drive bay

on a G4?

PeterG wrote:

My G4 has recently refused to Restart or Shut Down from the Apple menu. All the applications quit but I am left with the blue background and have to press the power button and hold down for a few seconds until it switches off.

it won't fix your problem, but does the same thing happen if you try to shutdown using the terminal?
you may need to be root (sudo).
shutdown -h now (to poweroff/halt)
shutdown -r now (to reboot)

PeterG wrote:

Sorry, I'm not too familiar with the 'terminal' and have not ventured there unless taken by the hand. :-(

well - firstly, i don't have Tiger, so it may be slightly different. you must be an administrator of the Mac. goto the applications folder, then the Utilities folder and double click on the 'Terminal' application.

then in the Terminal, just type 'sudo shutdown -h now' (no quotes) to poweroff/halt
it'll ask for your admin password - type it
or
'sudo shutdown -r now' (no quotes) to reboot
it'll ask for your admin password - type it

see what happens.

I have seen more than one reference to pressing the PMU only once, but no explanation of what would happen if it were pressed more than once. Anyone care to elaborate?

Stephen C.

It is located near the battery.

Restart. Hope it works for you.

Otherwise I have no clue, except install OSX again (Archive & install).

G'Day
Morenuf

PeterG wrote:

Now that's the bit that worries me!

try it. nothing bad will happen. either it'll work, the computer will shutdown or not, and it'll hang, just as it is using the menu command.

NOTES on PMU

Apple documentation sparse on this. All they really says is that PMU might get corrupted and a PRAM battery could be drained within days instead of 3-4 years life expectancy. They just stress press it ONLY once (no doubt to avoid someone pressing it several times in short succession time peroid).

But the PMU is majorly involved in startup boot time issues including the PRAM. Apparently it is easily corrupted by transient voltage (power distruptions brownouts etc) and whatever that may get by the powersupply internal to your Mac. This includes static electrical charges that may occur while you are inside your Mac touching the motherboard.

In past 5 years I have had situations where I had to use the PMU reset to get a non functional G4 to boot. Two instances where likely related to when I was inside G4 case installing harddrives (despite my being careful to ground myself) and two others instances related to thunderstorms/power outages. Both the latter happened even with G4s turned off but still connected to main power via powerstrips/surger protectors. In all cases, once I did this my G4 Macs were functional again. The scenarios rarely happened, but disconcerting when they did, especially the first time it happened. Took me a while to figure it out.

Just thought PMU might work in your case.

????????????????
another thought: bad RAM (3rd party or even Apple's) or reseat all RAM another thought:

Some have used the NVRAM reset procedure to solve some problematic scenarios. You might try it. Not sure it would help you tho.

1. Restart your Mac holding down the Command, Option, O, and F keys. Wait a few seconds and then you will enter Open Firmware mode. 2. Type: reset-nvram
3. Press Return key (will return to you to the prompt, your nvram settings are now factory default)
4. Then type: reset-all
5. Press Return key (will reset your logic board and PRAM settings)

??????
Hope you figure it out.
G'Day
Morenuf

I have both a 2xG5 and a 17 PowerBook and they do not shutdown, just as described. This has happened since Tiger (no change with 10.4.1).

When I try a shutdown via the terminal I also get a failure from DeleteTrap.kext which says it fails to load and this terminated the shutdown sequence.

To summarize: Confused

PeterG wrote:

Twice I have used the REBOOT command and it worked OK on both occasions. Now, what does that tell you? [not me 'cause I haven't a clue!] The reboot option certainly solves an immediate problem as I nearly never have my machine switched off and only reboot when software dictates. That said, I'd really like to get to the bottom of the problem.

i'm not sure what is says exactly, but it's probably a software-related issue. look inside your Library directory and see if you can find a reboot or shutdown related .plist file. if you find something related, rename it to something like reboot-old.plist or shutdown-old.plist and then reboot see if that helps. it should create a new .plist file.

for the time being, at least you can reboot using the terminal.

On Wed, 25 May 2005 7:58:23 -0700, PeterG wrote

So if someone did happen to cause the PMU to stop responding by pressing the button twice, they would need to get a new/better PMU?

Stephen C.

turbogeek wrote:

When I try a shutdown via the terminal I also get a failure from DeleteTrap.kext which says it fails to load and this terminated the shutdown sequence.

.kext files are third-party kernel extensions. it may be some app you've installed or the permissions are wrong on some file. try running the repair permissions tool.

PeterG wrote:

Once again thank you for your time, help and patience.

You're welcome.
Have you tried repairing permissions, yet? It couldn't hurt and may actually help.

This is driving me nuts too. Trying to restart from terminal sends it into an unending loop of "Waiting for Reschedule Missed Tasks" after DeleteTrap.kext. Permissions repair ran for hours and got stuck. I recently installed Onyx, Norton virus update and the Apple quicktime & security updates. I've removed all traces of Onyx and that did not help. I wonder if this "third party kernel" can just be removed.

Delete the folder 'Quickbackstartup' (part of 'speedtools')in the startupitems folder in the Library folder

Kees

You've done nearly everything already.

PMU controls boot up & power mangement issues.

At least try resetting the PMU (Power Management Unit) a button on the motherboard near the battery. Press it ONCE (too many presses may leave PMU in unhappy state and drain the motherboard battery in 1-2 days instead of 3-5 years). Restart.

If all else fails, try reseating ANYTHING that can be unplugged and reseated on the motherboard just in case some poor connection or oxidation exists. That inludes RAM, Hard drives, PCI cards, power connections, etc.

Last ditch attempt is , Archive & Install 10.4. Test if it works at 10.4 before installing 10.4.1 update again.

Good luck. Hope it works.

G'Day
Morenuf