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More about sleep problems?

Message #1 - Posted 2007/04/24 - Salmon Egg

I have more information on my sleep problem on my G4 running 10.4.9.

I try putting my computer to sleep in the following ways.

1. I select Sleep from the Apple menu.
2. I press the Power button momentarily on the front of the Mac. 3. From the log-in window during startup, I press the back arrow and select Sleep

In every case, the cursor disappears, the keyboard stops functioning. I have to reboot in order to get going again. The screen looks the same as before the sleep attempt except for the lack of a cursor. My optical mouse stays lit. The screen does not go into the low power mode. I still have to see if the Energy Saver will kick in under those circumstances if I wait long enough.

If I let the Energy Saver kick in, the screen goes dark. Waking up from that state seems to work OK.

I have booted from a version of 10.3 on a different drive. The same problem occurs.

I have used Disk Warrior and other techniques to purge my drives of errors. I now get a clean bill of health. I have reinstalled 10.4.9. Nothing helps. I will try removing everything from my startup folder.

I cannot see how reformatting my main drive and reinstalling the system will help under these circumstances. Can it be a hardware failure somewhere?

What now?

Bill

Message #2 - Posted 2007/04/24 - Dave Balderstone

Previously, Salmon Egg wrote:

I have more information on my sleep problem on my G4 running 10.4.9.

I try putting my computer to sleep in the following ways.

1. I select Sleep from the Apple menu.
2. I press the Power button momentarily on the front of the Mac. 3. From the log-in window during startup, I press the back arrow and select Sleep

In every case, the cursor disappears, the keyboard stops functioning. I have to reboot in order to get going again. The screen looks the same as before the sleep attempt except for the lack of a cursor. My optical mouse stays lit. The screen does not go into the low power mode. I still have to see if the Energy Saver will kick in under those circumstances if I wait long enough.

If I let the Energy Saver kick in, the screen goes dark. Waking up from that state seems to work OK.

I have booted from a version of 10.3 on a different drive. The same problem occurs.

I have used Disk Warrior and other techniques to purge my drives of errors. I now get a clean bill of health. I have reinstalled 10.4.9. Nothing helps. I will try removing everything from my startup folder.

I cannot see how reformatting my main drive and reinstalling the system will help under these circumstances. Can it be a hardware failure somewhere?

What now?

Does this happen under every user account?

Have you tested it under a different login?

I am extraordinarily patient, provided I get my own way in the end. - Margaret Thatcher

Message #3 - Posted 2007/04/24 - Salmon Egg

On 4/24/07 1:03 PM, in article 240420071403302331%dave@N_O_T_T_H_I_Sbalderstone.ca, Dave Balderstone wrote:

Does this happen under every user account?

Have you tested it under a different login?

I only have one account at this time.

BTW, In my original post, I mentioned that when the cursor disappears, I hear a click from the computer that sounds like a relay flipping. That is still happening.

Bill
-- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go.

Message #4 - Posted 2007/04/25 - Jolly Roger

On 2007-04-24 13:36:13 -0500, Salmon Egg said:

I have more information on my sleep problem on my G4 running 10.4.9.

I try putting my computer to sleep in the following ways.

1. I select Sleep from the Apple menu.
2. I press the Power button momentarily on the front of the Mac. 3. From the log-in window during startup, I press the back arrow and select Sleep

In every case, the cursor disappears, the keyboard stops functioning.

It kind of sounds like, with the exception of your screen, the computer is going at least partially to sleep.

Which particular model G4 do you have?

Does your G4 have a light on the front that glows brighter and dimmer in a cycle (simulating the slow breathing of someone asleep) when the computer is sleeping?

I have to reboot in order to get going again.

Next time, instead of rebooting, try simply pressing the Space bar on your keyboard, and see if the computer wakes up again.

My optical mouse stays lit.

That's very peculiar - it should go dark when the computer is asleep.

If I let the Energy Saver kick in, the screen goes dark. Waking up from that state seems to work OK.

I have booted from a version of 10.3 on a different drive. The same problem occurs.

I have used Disk Warrior and other techniques to purge my drives of errors. I now get a clean bill of health. I have reinstalled 10.4.9. Nothing helps. I will try removing everything from my startup folder.

I cannot see how reformatting my main drive and reinstalling the system will help under these circumstances. Can it be a hardware failure somewhere?

What now?

You never answered regarding my earlier suggestions:

1. Have you taken a look at your console and system logs to see if any error messages are generated when you put the machine to sleep? Open /Applications/Utilities/Console, then from the Console menu bar, select File > Open Console Log and File > Open System Log. Then put the machine to sleep and see if you see any error messages in the logs.

2. You cannot wake it up by pressing the space bar?

Also, have you tried resetting the power management unit (PMU) by following Apple's instructions?:

<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=95037>

JR

Message #5 - Posted 2007/04/26 - Kir?ly

Salmon Egg wrote:

Have you tested it under a different login?

I only have one account at this time.

Create a second one. Try it out. Report back.

Testing problems in a different user account is one of most effective ways at troubleshooting problems in OS X. Plenty of other reasons to have a spare user account too.

K.

Lang may your lum reek.

Message #6 - Posted 2007/04/26 - Salmon Egg

On 4/25/07 10:59 PM, in article jdXXh.5020$_G.2550@edtnps89, Kir·ly wrote:

Salmon Egg wrote:

Have you tested it under a different login?

I only have one account at this time.

Create a second one. Try it out. Report back.

Testing problems in a different user account is one of most effective ways at troubleshooting problems in OS X. Plenty of other reasons to have a spare user account too.

I did create a second account. As expected I had the same disappearing cursor freezing problem. I expected it because it can occur BEFORE the actual log-in. That is, a backward arrow gets to a window from which sleep can be attained. That, is the sleep of death!

I also zapped the PRAM. I measured the PRAM cell voltage and it was a bit low under load. That should only screw up date and time for a while. No more insight. Today, I am scheduled to talk to a tech at the Genius Bar an an Apple Store.

Otherwise, the computer seems to work well without any problems. I am concerned, however, that there is a leak somewhere in the dam so I might find a flood soon.

Bill
-- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go.

Message #7 - Posted 2007/04/26 - Paul Nevai

Salmon Egg wrote:

I have more information on my sleep problem on my G4 running 10.4.9.

...

What now?

Do you have SpeedTools? Get rid off them. /PaulN

Message #8 - Posted 2007/04/26 - Neill Massello

Salmon Egg wrote:

I have more information on my sleep problem on my G4 running 10.4.9.

I try putting my computer to sleep in the following ways.

1. I select Sleep from the Apple menu.
2. I press the Power button momentarily on the front of the Mac. 3. From the log-in window during startup, I press the back arrow and select Sleep

In every case, the cursor disappears, the keyboard stops functioning. I have to reboot in order to get going again. The screen looks the same as before the sleep attempt except for the lack of a cursor. My optical mouse stays lit. The screen does not go into the low power mode. I still have to see if the Energy Saver will kick in under those circumstances if I wait long enough.

If I let the Energy Saver kick in, the screen goes dark. Waking up from that state seems to work OK.

I have booted from a version of 10.3 on a different drive. The same problem occurs.

I have used Disk Warrior and other techniques to purge my drives of errors. I now get a clean bill of health. I have reinstalled 10.4.9. Nothing helps. I will try removing everything from my startup folder.

I cannot see how reformatting my main drive and reinstalling the system will help under these circumstances. Can it be a hardware failure somewhere?

Your Mac is crashing when attempting to go into deep sleep. The usual suspects are non-Apple PCI cards or USB devices. The problem can appear and disappear depending on the drivers installed in /System/Library/Extensions, and that may be why this started after an OS update.

What now?

Remove any non-Apple adapter cards or USB devices and see if the G4 will go into deep sleep without crashing after a restart. If it does, you have a compatibility problem with at least one of those devices and might want to try installing the older version of the relevant driver file.

Message #9 - Posted 2007/04/27 - Salmon Egg

On 4/26/07 1:58 PM, in article 1hx6log.25tntkqy3432N%massello@newsguy.com, Neill Massello wrote:

Salmon Egg wrote:

I have more information on my sleep problem on my G4 running 10.4.9.

I try putting my computer to sleep in the following ways.

1. I select Sleep from the Apple menu.
2. I press the Power button momentarily on the front of the Mac. 3. From the log-in window during startup, I press the back arrow and select Sleep

In every case, the cursor disappears, the keyboard stops functioning. I have to reboot in order to get going again. The screen looks the same as before the sleep attempt except for the lack of a cursor. My optical mouse stays lit. The screen does not go into the low power mode. I still have to see if the Energy Saver will kick in under those circumstances if I wait long enough.

If I let the Energy Saver kick in, the screen goes dark. Waking up from that state seems to work OK.

I have booted from a version of 10.3 on a different drive. The same problem occurs.

I have used Disk Warrior and other techniques to purge my drives of errors. I now get a clean bill of health. I have reinstalled 10.4.9. Nothing helps. I will try removing everything from my startup folder.

I cannot see how reformatting my main drive and reinstalling the system will help under these circumstances. Can it be a hardware failure somewhere?

Your Mac is crashing when attempting to go into deep sleep. The usual suspects are non-Apple PCI cards or USB devices. The problem can appear and disappear depending on the drivers installed in /System/Library/Extensions, and that may be why this started after an OS update.

What now?

Remove any non-Apple adapter cards or USB devices and see if the G4 will go into deep sleep without crashing after a restart. If it does, you have a compatibility problem with at least one of those devices and might want to try installing the older version of the relevant driver file.

This response is truly prescient but too late for me.

Today I went to the Genius Bar at an Apple store in Manhattan Beach. The tech started my computer while zapping the PRAM. He also reset the Power Management Unit (PMU). Everything worked just fine at the store. The cursor did not disappear. The computer went to sleep and I could wake it up just as it was supposed to work.

When I got home, the old problem showed up. I decided to disconnect all the cables and put them in one by one after zapping PRAM and PMU. Everything worked until I plugged in my Brother MFC-8640D into a PCI USB port. The disappearing cursor problem showed up again. When I switched it to a built-in USB port, I had no problems.

What I think I had done was to move the MFC connection to a PSI port. My motivation was that I would use the PCI ports for connections to devices that did not have to be active during boot or log-in time. The keyboard and mouse have to be active during this time. The MFC does not have to be active then, so I thought it would be safe to make the change. I was wrong.

Bill
-- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go.

Message #10 - Posted 2007/04/27 - Jolly Roger

On 2007-04-26 21:55:00 -0500, Salmon Egg said:

When I got home, the old problem showed up. I decided to disconnect all the cables and put them in one by one after zapping PRAM and PMU. Everything worked until I plugged in my Brother MFC-8640D into a PCI USB port. The disappearing cursor problem showed up again. When I switched it to a built-in USB port, I had no problems.

What make and model USB PCI card is that?

JR

Message #11 - Posted 2007/04/27 - Salmon Egg

On 4/26/07 8:50 PM, in article 2007042622502422405-jollyroger@nullorg, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2007-04-26 21:55:00 -0500, Salmon Egg said:

When I got home, the old problem showed up. I decided to disconnect all the cables and put them in one by one after zapping PRAM and PMU. Everything worked until I plugged in my Brother MFC-8640D into a PCI USB port. The disappearing cursor problem showed up again. When I switched it to a built-in USB port, I had no problems.

What make and model USB PCI card is that?

I you really would find that information useful, I will look at the card. For now, I will just list what the system profiler found.

pci1735,e0:

Bus: PCI
Slot: SLOT-2
Vendor ID: 0x1033
Device ID: 0x00e0
Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x1735
Subsystem ID: 0x00e0
Revision ID: 0x0002

usb:

Type: usb
Bus: PCI
Slot: SLOT-2
Vendor ID: 0x1033
Device ID: 0x0035
Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x1735
Subsystem ID: 0x0035
Revision ID: 0x0041

usb:

Type: usb
Bus: PCI
Slot: SLOT-2
Vendor ID: 0x1033
Device ID: 0x0035
Subsystem Vendor ID: 0x1735
Subsystem ID: 0x0035
Revision ID: 0x0041

Bill
-- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go.

Message #12 - Posted 2007/04/27 - Jolly Roger

On 2007-04-26 23:34:11 -0500, Salmon Egg said:

On 4/26/07 8:50 PM, in article 2007042622502422405-jollyroger@nullorg, Jolly Roger wrote:

On 2007-04-26 21:55:00 -0500, Salmon Egg said:

When I got home, the old problem showed up. I decided to disconnect all the cables and put them in one by one after zapping PRAM and PMU. Everything worked until I plugged in my Brother MFC-8640D into a PCI USB port. The disappearing cursor problem showed up again. When I switched it to a built-in USB port, I had no problems.

What make and model USB PCI card is that?

I you really would find that information useful, I will look at the card. For now, I will just list what the system profiler found.

Well I think if anyone might find it useful, it would be *you*, since you are the one having problems with it, right? ; ) It seems you've found an incompatibility with this PCI card and Mac OS X's sleep functionality - maybe the card's drivers don't support deep sleep. Depending on how old the card is, the make, and model, you may be able to look it up online and find a work-around solution to the problem.

JR

Message #13 - Posted 2007/04/27 - Salmon Egg

On 4/26/07 10:41 PM, in article 2007042700411078355-jollyroger@nullorg, Jolly Roger wrote:

Well I think if anyone might find it useful, it would be *you*, since you are the one having problems with it, right? ; ) It seems you've found an incompatibility with this PCI card and Mac OS X's sleep functionality - maybe the card's drivers don't support deep sleep. Depending on how old the card is, the make, and model, you may be able to look it up online and find a work-around solution to the problem.

At this point, I do have a work-around. Next time I open my Mac, I will check out the card and report the results to the manufacturer and to Brother.

For now, the answer is to use one of the built in ports rather than the PCI card.

Bill
-- Fermez le Bush--about two years to go.

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