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New battery or need to fix/reset the battery charge status?

Message #1 - Posted 2012/05/30 - SRMoll

On Wednesday, May 30, 2012 7:37:47 AM UTC+1, nospam wrote:

Previously, Ant wrote:

replace the battery.

you *might* be able to do a full discharge/recharge to weasel a little extra life out of it, but it's not going to be much better.

if you option-click the battery menu extra, it will display the battery's condition and it will probably say service battery or something to that effect.

We did not see anything odd/unusual. It said 84% (we were charging earlier after the incident) after pulling the power AC to check, different battery power options, and status options, but no "extra" text. We did not see any "service battery" or anything like that.

if you option-click it, there's an extra line about the battery condition. mine says condition: normal. yours probably won't.

you can also run system profiler and see what it says in the power section.

as for replacements, there are third party batteries, but personally, i'd get only apple label ones. shop around for the best deal.

So, would Fry's Electronics, Best Buy, Costco, Apple stores, Radio Shack, etc. carry these MBP batteries?

apple stores obviously will, as will best buy. radio shack won't. i have no idea about costco or fry's.

you also might have success finding one on ebay that's in reasonable condition if you don't want to pay full price for a battery for a 4 year old computer, however, you might also get stuck with another failing one.

How much does a new one usually cost?

$129

The battery on my aged 2009 MacBook Pro started doing that, it would die suddenly after 20 to 30 minutes.Eventually, literally overnight, the battery swelled up and was distorting the MacBook chassis. I was able to unclip the battery and put it aside, but I guessing you don't have that option, and will need to ensure the old battery is out of the machine before it has a chace to do irreversible damage.

Message #2 - Posted 2012/05/30 - Ant

On 5/30/2012 2:43 AM PT, SRMoll typed:

if you option-click the battery menu extra, it will display the battery's condition and it will probably say service battery or something to that effect.

We did not see anything odd/unusual. It said 84% (we were charging earlier after the incident) after pulling the power AC to check, different battery power options, and status options, but no "extra" text. We did not see any "service battery" or anything like that.

if you option-click it, there's an extra line about the battery condition. mine says condition: normal. yours probably won't.

Is that the one where it has options to pick best performance, normal, best performance, custom, etc.? Then, they looked fine to me. No odd/weird errors/texts.

you can also run system profiler and see what it says in the power section.

Here is what it says when running on battery right after seeing 97% charge:

Battery Information:

Model Information:
Serial Number: Sony-ASMB012-38f9-d6e9
Manufacturer: Sony
Device name: ASMB012
Pack Lot Code: 0000
PCB Lot Code: 0000
Firmware Version: 0110
Hardware Revision: 0500
Cell Revision: 0303
Charge Information:
Charge remaining (mAh): 1993
Fully charged: Yes
Charging: No
Full charge capacity (mAh): 2092
Health Information:
Cycle count: 79
Condition: Check Battery
Battery Installed: Yes
Amperage (mA): -1142
Voltage (mV): 11963

System Power Settings:

AC Power:
System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 60
Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 30
Automatic Restart On Power Loss: No
Wake On AC Change: No
Wake On Clamshell Open: Yes
Wake On LAN: Yes
Display Sleep Uses Dim: Yes
Battery Power:
System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 5
Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 10
Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 1
Wake On AC Change: No
Wake On Clamshell Open: Yes
Display Sleep Uses Dim: Yes
Reduce Brightness: Yes

Hardware Configuration:

UPS Installed: No

AC Charger Information:

Connected: No
Charging: No

I see that "Check battery" text. I guess that means to change it?

as for replacements, there are third party batteries, but personally, i'd get only apple label ones. shop around for the best deal.

So, would Fry's Electronics, Best Buy, Costco, Apple stores, Radio Shack, etc. carry these MBP batteries?

apple stores obviously will, as will best buy. radio shack won't. i have no idea about costco or fry's.

OK. Do I have to find specific models or something for this old MBP from 2008?

you also might have success finding one on ebay that's in reasonable condition if you don't want to pay full price for a battery for a 4 year old computer, however, you might also get stuck with another failing one.

How much does a new one usually cost?

$129

The battery on my aged 2009 MacBook Pro started doing that, it would die suddenly after 20 to 30 minutes.Eventually, literally overnight, the battery swelled up and was distorting the MacBook chassis. I was able to unclip the battery and put it aside, but I guessing you don't have that option, and will need to ensure the old battery is out of the machine before it has a chace to do irreversible damage.

Wow, expensive. Yikes for the physical damage!! I will tell my client to remove it then! That's scary! I hope it is easy to remove it.

Good thing we made a big external USB HDD backup (Time Machine and manually) over the long Memorial Day weekend. :)
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Message #3 - Posted 2012/05/30 - nospam

Previously, Ant wrote:

if you option-click it, there's an extra line about the battery condition. mine says condition: normal. yours probably won't.

Is that the one where it has options to pick best performance, normal, best performance, custom, etc.? Then, they looked fine to me. No odd/weird errors/texts.

it's the menu extra that just shows battery level, but apparently the condition item was added in 10.6 and i think you said 10.5.8 so that explains why you aren't seeing anything.

<http://www.macosxtips.co.uk/index_files/240210-battery-menu.png>

Health Information:
Cycle count: 79
Condition: Check Battery

this is where it would say 'normal' if it wasn't having a problem.

79 cycles for a 4 year old battery?? he obviously doesn't use it on battery power all that often, so why bother replacing it?

I see that "Check battery" text. I guess that means to change it?

it means there's a problem, but at least it's better than 'service battery'.

OK. Do I have to find specific models or something for this old MBP from 2008?

there are different ones for the various size macbooks.

How much does a new one usually cost?

$129

The battery on my aged 2009 MacBook Pro started doing that, it would die suddenly after 20 to 30 minutes.Eventually, literally overnight, the battery swelled up and was distorting the MacBook chassis. I was able to unclip the battery and put it aside, but I guessing you don't have that option, and will need to ensure the old battery is out of the machine before it has a chace to do irreversible damage.

Wow, expensive. Yikes for the physical damage!! I will tell my client to remove it then! That's scary! I hope it is easy to remove it.

it's very easy to remove (unlike the more recent macbooks). he can keep using the battery, just keep an eye on it if it starts to swell, which it probably won't. that only happens if there's some sort of internal damage.

Good thing we made a big external USB HDD backup (Time Machine and manually) over the long Memorial Day weekend. :)

backups are always a good thing but the battery issue is unrelated to hard drive crashes.

Message #4 - Posted 2012/05/31 - David Empson

(By the way, the newsgroups "comp.sys.mac.portable" and "comp.sys.mac.systems" do not officially exist, so I've removed them from followups. The remaining groups are valid.)

Ant wrote:

Since it looks like my client's MBP will need a new battery. Looking at http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=macbook+pro+battery ... show two 15" batteries. Which one is which for this 2008's MacBook Pro model?

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MA348LL/A is for older (original body) MacBook Pro models (2006 to early 2008).

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB772LL/A is for the aluminium unibody models which have a removable battery (late 2008).

The mid 2009 and more recent models have an integrated battery, which Apple regards as not being user-replaceable. The official means of replacing these is to take it to an authorised Apple service agent, and they will probably charge you US$129 for the battery itself, plus a labour charge.

If you aren't sure which 2008 model your client has, go into Apple menu, About This Mac, click More Info.

In Mac OS X 10.6.8 and earlier, this runs System Profiler. The "Model Identifier" is shown on the first page. It is "MacBookPro5,1" for the late 2008 15" model (unibody). The first digit will be 4 or less for earlier models.

In Mac OS X 10.7 and later, System Profiler was renamed to System Information, and has an initial window which gives a general overview, including the model name. You can click the System Report button to open the same detailed information that System Profiler gave, and can see the Model Identifier there.

Is it aluminum?

All MacBook Pros are aluminium.

Also, what's up with the low ratings and negative reviews?

Most of the negative reviews seem to be complaints about having to replace the original battery with a new one sooner than they expected.

That doesn't match my personal experience, but I expect a lot of variation comes from how the battery gets exercised.

My typical usage pattern during the week is to have the computer plugged in most of the day while I'm at work, and running from battery most of the time while I'm using it at home, sometimes plugging it in at home if necessary (particularly during the weekends).

My previous MacBook Pro (mid 2007 model, original body) had its original battery for the three years in which I owned it. It got well over 300 cycles and was still getting excellent run time. As far as I know, the new owner hasn't had to replace the battery yet (two years later).

Battery life could be reduced by running the computer from mains power for weeks or months at a time, without running it on battery at all.

Battery life could also be reduced by using it heavily on battery and not allowing enough recharge time, or letting the battery discharge to very low levels without being recharged for a while.

( Are there any top rated reviewed batteries to get if these are not

good? $129 is expensive.

For models with removable batteries you could try Newer Technology (sold via Other World Computing): http://www.macsales.com. I got one for my PowerBook G4 back in 2004, which lasted longer than the original Apple battery for that computer, but I don't have any more recent experience.

Personally I'd bite the bullet and stick with the official Apple batteries these days.

David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Message #5 - Posted 2012/05/30 - Ant

On 5/30/2012 5:39 PM PT, David Empson typed:

Since it looks like my client's MBP will need a new battery. Looking at http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=macbook+pro+battery ... show two 15" batteries. Which one is which for this 2008's MacBook Pro model?

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MA348LL/A is for older (original body) MacBook Pro models (2006 to early 2008).

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB772LL/A is for the aluminium unibody models which have a removable battery (late 2008).

The mid 2009 and more recent models have an integrated battery, which Apple regards as not being user-replaceable. The official means of replacing these is to take it to an authorised Apple service agent, and they will probably charge you US$129 for the battery itself, plus a labour charge.

If you aren't sure which 2008 model your client has, go into Apple menu, About This Mac, click More Info.

In Mac OS X 10.6.8 and earlier, this runs System Profiler. The "Model Identifier" is shown on the first page. It is "MacBookPro5,1" for the late 2008 15" model (unibody). The first digit will be 4 or less for earlier models.

In Mac OS X 10.7 and later, System Profiler was renamed to System Information, and has an initial window which gives a general overview, including the model name. You can click the System Report button to open the same detailed information that System Profiler gave, and can see the Model Identifier there.

I looked under my client's MBP and it was the big size so he has the older one. Wow, Apple doesn't want to change hardware parts in their newer models? That's dumb. :(

Is it aluminum?

All MacBook Pros are aluminium.

Also, what's up with the low ratings and negative reviews?

Most of the negative reviews seem to be complaints about having to replace the original battery with a new one sooner than they expected.

That doesn't match my personal experience, but I expect a lot of variation comes from how the battery gets exercised.

My typical usage pattern during the week is to have the computer plugged in most of the day while I'm at work, and running from battery most of the time while I'm using it at home, sometimes plugging it in at home if necessary (particularly during the weekends).

My previous MacBook Pro (mid 2007 model, original body) had its original battery for the three years in which I owned it. It got well over 300 cycles and was still getting excellent run time. As far as I know, the new owner hasn't had to replace the battery yet (two years later).

Battery life could be reduced by running the computer from mains power for weeks or months at a time, without running it on battery at all.

Battery life could also be reduced by using it heavily on battery and not allowing enough recharge time, or letting the battery discharge to very low levels without being recharged for a while.

Interesting.

( Are there any top rated reviewed batteries to get if these are not

good? $129 is expensive.

For models with removable batteries you could try Newer Technology (sold via Other World Computing): http://www.macsales.com. I got one for my PowerBook G4 back in 2004, which lasted longer than the original Apple battery for that computer, but I don't have any more recent experience.

Personally I'd bite the bullet and stick with the official Apple batteries these days.

OK. What is its warranty like for these replaced Apple batteries? :) --
"The foreign policy aim of ants can be summed up as follows: restless aggression, territorial conquest, and genocidal annihilation of neighboring colonies whenever possible. If ants had nuclear weapons, they would probably end the world in a week." --Journey to the Ants, page 59. Bert Holldobler & Edward O. Wilson
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Message #6 - Posted 2012/05/30 - Ant

On 5/30/2012 8:32 AM PT, nospam typed:

if you option-click it, there's an extra line about the battery condition. mine says condition: normal. yours probably won't.

Is that the one where it has options to pick best performance, normal, custom, etc.? Then, they looked fine to me. No odd/weird errors/texts.

it's the menu extra that just shows battery level, but apparently the condition item was added in 10.6 and i think you said 10.5.8 so that explains why you aren't seeing anything.

<http://www.macosxtips.co.uk/index_files/240210-battery-menu.png>

Health Information:
Cycle count: 79
Condition: Check Battery

this is where it would say 'normal' if it wasn't having a problem.

Ah thanks.

79 cycles for a 4 year old battery?? he obviously doesn't use it on battery power all that often, so why bother replacing it?

He does once in a while. Very rare.

I see that "Check battery" text. I guess that means to change it?

it means there's a problem, but at least it's better than 'service battery'.

So what will happen with that "Check battery" text? Just less battery power? No explosions, physuical inflations, etc.?

OK. Do I have to find specific models or something for this old MBP from 2008?

there are different ones for the various size macbooks.

OK.

How much does a new one usually cost?

$129

The battery on my aged 2009 MacBook Pro started doing that, it would die suddenly after 20 to 30 minutes.Eventually, literally overnight, the battery swelled up and was distorting the MacBook chassis. I was able to unclip the battery and put it aside, but I guessing you don't have that option, and will need to ensure the old battery is out of the machine before it has a chace to do irreversible damage.

Wow, expensive. Yikes for the physical damage!! I will tell my client to remove it then! That's scary! I hope it is easy to remove it.

it's very easy to remove (unlike the more recent macbooks). he can keep using the battery, just keep an eye on it if it starts to swell, which it probably won't. that only happens if there's some sort of internal damage.

OK. Hopefully, no explosions. :)

Good thing we made a big external USB HDD backup (Time Machine and manually) over the long Memorial Day weekend. :)

backups are always a good thing but the battery issue is unrelated to hard drive crashes.

Well, you mentioned the physical battery swelling! That is scary! --
o/~ All the little ants are marching, red and black antennae waving... they all do it the same... they all do it the same... way... o/~ --Ants Marching song by Dave Matthews Band
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net

o o| |

\ _ / If crediting, then use Ant nickname and AQFL URL/link.

( ) If e-mailing, then axe ANT from its address if needed. Ant is currently not listening to any songs on this computer.

Message #7 - Posted 2012/05/30 - nospam

Previously, Ant wrote:

79 cycles for a 4 year old battery?? he obviously doesn't use it on battery power all that often, so why bother replacing it?

He does once in a while. Very rare.

that may have contributed to the battery failure. no way to know for sure though. it could also just be age. it's 4 years old and it's not unusual for a lithium ion battery to fail at that point.

I see that "Check battery" text. I guess that means to change it?

it means there's a problem, but at least it's better than 'service battery'.

So what will happen with that "Check battery" text? Just less battery power? No explosions, physuical inflations, etc.?

it means the system detected a problem, which is already obvious by the sudden shutdown.

Well, you mentioned the physical battery swelling! That is scary!

someone else mentioned swelling, but yes, if you see swelling, *stop* using it immediately. a swollen lithium ion battery is a ticking time bomb.

take it somewhere to be recycled as soon as possible, like an apple store, and keep it far away from anything that might catch fire until you do so.

if it isn't swollen, and it probably isn't, then you don't need to worry about that.

Message #8 - Posted 2012/05/31 - dorayme

Previously, nospam wrote:

if you see swelling, *stop*
using it immediately. a swollen lithium ion battery is a ticking time bomb.

Are we talking swollen as can be seen somehow from the outside of a MB? Or from opening the case and seeing the actual battery?

dorayme

Message #9 - Posted 2012/05/31 - JF Mezei

Haven't followed this thread so pardon for my intrusion.

"6 degrees" brings me here. Planning for a bike trip, I learned I would bike near a new Lithium mine in northern québec. Their web site pointed to a FAQ on lithium based batteries.

Lithium-Ion batteries's chemestry slowly degrades no matter what you do with it and they mention that they have 2-4 years life span. So as it degrades, it can hold a lesser charge and thus battery autonomy is reduced. There is nothing you can do to prevent this aging.

Lithium Ion batteries must not be allowed to toatlly discharge otherwise they become damaged. (I don't quite inderstand this, but they repeated this a number of times). This is why there is circuitry which prevents use of battery below certain voltage.

Message #10 - Posted 2012/05/31 - David Empson

Ant wrote:

On 5/30/2012 5:39 PM PT, David Empson typed:

Since it looks like my client's MBP will need a new battery. Looking at http://store.apple.com/us/search?find=macbook+pro+battery ... show two 15" batteries. Which one is which for this 2008's MacBook Pro model?

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MA348LL/A is for older (original body) MacBook Pro models (2006 to early 2008).

[...]

I looked under my client's MBP and it was the big size so he has the older one. Wow, Apple doesn't want to change hardware parts in their newer models? That's dumb. :(

Specifically not the batteries. For Unibody MacBook Pro models, Apple permits (and documents) end user replacement of memory and hard drive. Other components are service parts.

( Are there any top rated reviewed batteries to get if these are not

good? $129 is expensive.

For models with removable batteries you could try Newer Technology (sold via Other World Computing): http://www.macsales.com. I got one for my PowerBook G4 back in 2004, which lasted longer than the original Apple battery for that computer, but I don't have any more recent experience.

Personally I'd bite the bullet and stick with the official Apple batteries these days.

OK. What is its warranty like for these replaced Apple batteries? :)

Probably one year, the same as the original battery, but I can't see anything on the store web page clarifying that. If in doubt, ask the Apple Store.

<http://www.apple.com/batteries/> has general information about batteries in Apple products.

<http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html> is specifically on notebook batteries, but it has been updated to describe the much better integrated batteries in recent models, rather than the older removable ones, so some of the details are different.

Integrated notebook batteries should deliver up to 1000 full charge and discharge cycles and last up to five years, whereas the removable ones in older models were rated up to 300 charge cycles and didn't specify an expected lifetime.

David Empson
dempson@actrix.gen.nz

Message #11 - Posted 2012/05/31 - Ant

On 5/31/2012 3:35 AM PT, David Empson typed:

I looked under my client's MBP and it was the big size so he has the older one. Wow, Apple doesn't want to change hardware parts in their newer models? That's dumb. :(

Specifically not the batteries. For Unibody MacBook Pro models, Apple permits (and documents) end user replacement of memory and hard drive. Other components are service parts.

Yeah, I did say hardware parts. ;) Still lame!

Personally I'd bite the bullet and stick with the official Apple batteries these days.

OK. What is its warranty like for these replaced Apple batteries? :)

Probably one year, the same as the original battery, but I can't see anything on the store web page clarifying that. If in doubt, ask the Apple Store.

<http://www.apple.com/batteries/> has general information about batteries in Apple products.

<http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html> is specifically on notebook batteries, but it has been updated to describe the much better integrated batteries in recent models, rather than the older removable ones, so some of the details are different.

Integrated notebook batteries should deliver up to 1000 full charge and discharge cycles and last up to five years, whereas the removable ones in older models were rated up to 300 charge cycles and didn't specify an expected lifetime.

Wow. Do the newer ones really last that much longer so far? --
"Really. And do these lions eat ants?" --John Cleese in Monty Python's Flying Circus
/\___/\ Ant(Dude) @ http://antfarm.ma.cx (Personal Web Site) / /\ /\ \ Ant's Quality Foraged Links: http://aqfl.net

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