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New iMac Power On/Off

Message #1 - Posted 2002/01/18 - Kurt R. Todoroff

Does the new flat panel iMac use software controlled POWER-ON via the keyboard restart button, and software POWER-OFF via the SHUTDOWN command?

I intend to purchase two iMacs soon. I plan to setup myself and my wife as Users on one iMac. Is it possible to transfer the User settings to the second iMac so that both computers have identical User settings for me and identical User settings for my wife? Once she and I start using our own respective machines, can I synchonize the User settings from my iMac to her computer, and vice versa so that both machines' User settings stay current and up to date?

Does the iPod include a FireWire cable?

Kurt Todoroff
sharkone@aol.com

Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply

Message #2 - Posted 2002/01/17 - Tom Dowdy

Previously, Kurt R. Todoroff wrote:

Does the iPod include a FireWire cable?

Yes.

Message #3 - Posted 2002/01/18 - Charles Martin

Previously, Kurt R. Todoroff wrote:

Does the new flat panel iMac use software controlled POWER-ON via the keyboard restart button, and software POWER-OFF via the SHUTDOWN command?

Yes. There is also a power-on/off button on the back of the base. Pressing it while the machine is off will turn it on; pressing it while asleep will wake the machine to ask if you want to restart or shut down; pressing it while active will cause the machine to ask if you want to restart or shut down.

Does the iPod include a FireWire cable?

Yes.

_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #4 - Posted 2002/01/18 - Wes Groleau

User settings for my wife? Once she and I start using our own respective machines, can I synchonize the User settings from my iMac to her computer, and vice versa so that both machines' User settings stay current and up to date?

The book "Understanding and Using NetInfo" on the Apple website will tell you how you can maintain a common set of stuff from either machine. Settings not covered by NetInfo can be updated by copying the Preferences directories across (or by just using one copy mounted on both machines).

It's not trivial--you'll have to read carefully--but it's not rocket science either.

Message #5 - Posted 2002/01/18 - Kurt R. Todoroff

Thank you to all for your timely and helpful replies.

Kurt Todoroff
sharkone@aol.com

Remove "DELETEME" from my address to reply

Message #6 - Posted 2002/01/20 - ZnU

Previously, Wes Groleau wrote:

User settings for my wife? Once she and I start using our own respective machines, can I synchonize the User settings from my iMac to her computer, and vice versa so that both machines' User settings stay current and up to date?

The book "Understanding and Using NetInfo" on the Apple website will tell you how you can maintain a common set of stuff from either machine.

Have you actually managed to do it without OS X Server? That document, IIRC, assumes you have it. I know it's theoretically possible to get by without it, but I haven't managed to pull it off yet.

Settings not covered by NetInfo can be updated by copying the Preferences directories across (or by just using one copy mounted on both machines).

It's not trivial--you'll have to read carefully--but it's not rocket science either.

"We are living in a world today where lemonade is made from artificial flavors,and furniture polish is made from real lemons." --Alfred E. Newman

Message #7 - Posted 2002/01/20 - Todd Wilson

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

Previously, Kurt R. Todoroff wrote:

Does the new flat panel iMac use software controlled POWER-ON via the keyboard
restart button, and software POWER-OFF via the SHUTDOWN command?

Yes. There is also a power-on/off button on the back of the base. Pressing it while the machine is off will turn it on; pressing it while asleep will wake the machine to ask if you want to restart or shut down; pressing it while active will cause the machine to ask if you want to restart or shut down.

Does the iPod include a FireWire cable?

Yes.

Hello,

While Kurt is right about the power switch on the back of the unit, as far as I can tell (having spent some time with a couple of them over the past few days), there is no power switch of any kind on the keyboard. Seems Apple's idea is for users to turn it on, and only to put it to sleep, and almost never to turn it off.

Todd

Message #8 - Posted 2002/01/20 - Tom Stiller

Previously, Todd Wilson wrote:

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

Previously, Kurt R. Todoroff wrote:

Does the new flat panel iMac use software controlled POWER-ON via the keyboard
restart button, and software POWER-OFF via the SHUTDOWN command?

Yes. There is also a power-on/off button on the back of the base. Pressing it while the machine is off will turn it on; pressing it while asleep will wake the machine to ask if you want to restart or shut down; pressing it while active will cause the machine to ask if you want to restart or shut down.

Does the iPod include a FireWire cable?

Yes.

Hello,

While Kurt is right about the power switch on the back of the unit, as far as I can tell (having spent some time with a couple of them over the past few days), there is no power switch of any kind on the keyboard. Seems Apple's idea is for users to turn it on, and only to put it to sleep, and almost never to turn it off.

There is np power switch on the keyboard that came with my 2001 Graphite iMac either.

Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

Message #9 - Posted 2002/01/21 - Charles Martin

Previously, Todd Wilson wrote:

While Kurt is right about the power switch on the back of the unit, as far as I can tell (having spent some time with a couple of them over the past few days), there is no power switch of any kind on the keyboard. Seems Apple's idea is for users to turn it on, and only to put it to sleep, and almost never to turn it off.

You are correct, while my answer kind of inferred that there is a keyboard power switch. There isn't.

With Mac OS X, you are intended to leave the machine on all the time. Sleep uses only a miniscule amount more power than shutting the machine completely off.

Also, I have read in a number of places that Mac OS X prefers keepin' on it's back. Beautiful plumage ...

SORRY! Ahem, I have read in a number of places that Mac OS X prefers to run some UNIX-y type housekeeping things while in sleep, whereas keeping the machine off most of the time will eventually lead to problems. The software MacJanitor was designed to alleviate this.

_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #10 - Posted 2002/01/21 - Keeper of the Purple Twilight

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

With Mac OS X, you are intended to leave the machine on all the time. Sleep uses only a miniscule amount more power than shutting the machine completely off.

What about a power surge? What will that do to a sleeping machine? There's no risk that a Mac that's asleep might ever turn itself on (accidentally or on purpose), is there?

"Back in a minute." - Godot

Message #11 - Posted 2002/01/21 - rob

Charles Martin wrote:

SORRY! Ahem, I have read in a number of places that Mac OS X prefers to run some UNIX-y type housekeeping things while in sleep,

nothing runs when OSX is asleep.

<Unix bashers look away>
sudo sh /etc/daily
and
sudo sh /etc/weekly
and
sudo sh /etc/monthly

can be run at any time from a terminal to catch up. </Unix bashers look away>

Message #12 - Posted 2002/01/21 - Keeper of the Purple Twilight

Previously, rob wrote:

Charles Martin wrote:

SORRY! Ahem, I have read in a number of places that Mac OS X prefers to run some UNIX-y type housekeeping things while in sleep,

nothing runs when OSX is asleep.

Then when *do* these things run?

"Back in a minute." - Godot

Message #13 - Posted 2002/01/21 - rob

Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:

Previously, rob wrote:

Charles Martin wrote:

SORRY! Ahem, I have read in a number of places that Mac OS X prefers to run some UNIX-y type housekeeping things while in sleep,

nothing runs when OSX is asleep.

Then when *do* these things run?

From /etc/crontab

# do daily/weekly/monthly maintenance
15 3 * * * root sh /etc/daily 2>&1 | tee /var/ log/daily.out | mail -s "`hostname` daily output" root 30 4 * * 6 root sh /etc/weekly 2>&1 | tee /var/ log/weekly.out | mail -s "`hostname` weekly output" root 30 5 1 * * root sh /etc/monthly 2>&1 | tee /var/ log/monthly.out | mail -s "`hostname` monthly output" root

Daily run at 03:15
Weekly run 04:30, 6th day of the week (Sat).
Monthly run 05:30, 1st day of the month

BUT, only when machine is not in a deep sleep mode.

Message #14 - Posted 2002/01/21 - Keeper of the Purple Twilight

Previously, rob wrote:

Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:

Previously, rob wrote:

Charles Martin wrote:

SORRY! Ahem, I have read in a number of places that Mac OS X prefers to run some UNIX-y type housekeeping things while in sleep,

nothing runs when OSX is asleep.

Then when *do* these things run?

From /etc/crontab

# do daily/weekly/monthly maintenance
15 3 * * * root sh /etc/daily 2>&1 | tee /var/
log/daily.out | mail -s "`hostname` daily output" root 30 4 * * 6 root sh /etc/weekly 2>&1 | tee /var/
log/weekly.out | mail -s "`hostname` weekly output" root 30 5 1 * * root sh /etc/monthly 2>&1 | tee /var/
log/monthly.out | mail -s "`hostname` monthly output" root

Daily run at 03:15
Weekly run 04:30, 6th day of the week (Sat).
Monthly run 05:30, 1st day of the month

BUT, only when machine is not in a deep sleep mode.

The only time I put my Mac to sleep is when I expect to come back to it within the hour. If I go to work, or to bed, or leave the house for any reason, I'll shut it off. (Security isn't a problem, 'cos I live alone, but I purposely don't put my Mac to sleep because I don't want it spontaneously turning itself on, or getting damaged by a power spike.)

I assume that it's not that big of a deal if these automatic things don't run?

"Back in a minute." - Godot

Message #15 - Posted 2002/01/21 - rob

Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:

The only time I put my Mac to sleep is when I expect to come back to it within the hour. If I go to work, or to bed, or leave the house for any reason, I'll shut it off. (Security isn't a problem, 'cos I live alone, but I purposely don't put my Mac to sleep because I don't want it spontaneously turning itself on, or getting damaged by a power spike.)

Doesn't that mean you need a surge protector ?, or do you only get power spikes when you're out of the house ? ;-)

As for spontaneously turning itself on, does this happen ? You can always cover that possibility by setting the energy saver preference to auto-sleep within an hour of inactivity.

I assume that it's not that big of a deal if these automatic things don't run?

If it were a big deal, Apple would have done something about it already.

The biggest risk (yet not likely) is filling the disk with logged data. Have a look in /etc/logs/ to see how big the various logfiles have grown since the cron daemon called the daily/weekly/monthly housekeeping scripts.

Message #16 - Posted 2002/01/21 - Laurie Brown

Previously, rob wrote:

The only time I put my Mac to sleep is when I expect to come back to it within the hour. If I go to work, or to bed, or leave the house for any reason, I'll shut it off. (Security isn't a problem, 'cos I live alone, but I purposely don't put my Mac to sleep because I don't want it spontaneously turning itself on, or getting damaged by a power spike.)

If you are not also unplugging the machine from the power outlet - you will not be protecting your machine from a surge, and might as well just put it to sleep.

Laurie

Message #17 - Posted 2002/01/21 - Keeper of the Purple Twilight

Previously, rob wrote:

As for spontaneously turning itself on, does this happen ?

I don't know, I suppose it could.

You can always cover that possibility by setting the energy saver preference to auto-sleep within an hour of inactivity.

Perhaps. Is it definite that a sleeping system doesn't use much more power than a shutdown one?

I assume that it's not that big of a deal if these automatic things don't run?

If it were a big deal, Apple would have done something about it already.

Exactly! So it doesn't really matter whether or not I choose Shut Down over Sleep.

"Back in a minute." - Godot

Message #18 - Posted 2002/01/21 - Keeper of the Purple Twilight

Previously, Laurie Brown wrote:

Previously, rob wrote:

The only time I put my Mac to sleep is when I expect to come back to it within the hour. If I go to work, or to bed, or leave the house for any reason, I'll shut it off. (Security isn't a problem, 'cos I live alone, but I purposely don't put my Mac to sleep because I don't want it spontaneously turning itself on, or getting damaged by a power spike.)

If you are not also unplugging the machine from the power outlet - you will not
be protecting your machine from a surge, and might as well just put it to sleep

What's the big deal about shutting it down, anyway? Doesn't take that long to boot up. If it was that important, there wouldn't BE a Shut Down command.

"Back in a minute." - Godot

Message #19 - Posted 2002/01/21 - rob

Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:

Perhaps. Is it definite that a sleeping system doesn't use much more power than a shutdown one?

I've no idea about that. All I know is that in a sleep state it uses a lot less power than when awake.

Exactly! So it doesn't really matter whether or not I choose Shut Down over Sleep.

It doesn't matter at all. Use of sleep versus powering the machine down is a personal preference that's
most likely based on the time it takes to boot the machine when you return to it.
I hate slow booting so I leave the machine powered up
24x7. I use the deep sleep to reduce the wasted electricity.

Message #20 - Posted 2002/01/21 - clw

The only time I put my Mac to sleep is when I expect to come back to it within the hour. If I go to work, or to bed, or leave the house for any reason, I'll shut it off. (Security isn't a problem, 'cos I live alone, but I purposely don't put my Mac to sleep because I don't want it spontaneously turning itself on, or getting damaged by a power spike.)

No-one should assume that turning off a computer which is still plugged into the wall or connected to the phone line is protected from a power surge.

Message #21 - Posted 2002/01/22 - zoara

Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:

What's the big deal about shutting it down, anyway? Doesn't take that long to boot up. If it was that important, there wouldn't BE a Shut Down command.

Convenience.

I never turn my iBook off, simply because opening the lid and starting to use it straight away is more convenient than waiting a minute or two. I often do stuff in ad breaks, or while waiting for things to cook, or other brief times where otherwise I'd be waiting around doing nothing for a few minutes.

If you want to turn it off, feel free. :)

-z-

forward error - strawberry unknown domain

Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

Message #22 - Posted 2002/01/22 - abuse

Charles Martin <rubbish@bollocks.org> writes:

Sleep uses only a miniscule amount more power than shutting the machine completely off.

My Digital Audio model G4 draws 0.16 Ampere while asleep. In contrast when it's fully awake it's drawing 1.40 Amps. Anyway sleeping consumes about 18 watts which is about 13 kilowatt-hours a month. If you were in California this could cost about 15 cents per kwh, or US$1.95 .....

Billy Y..

Message #23 - Posted 2002/01/22 - Charles Martin

Previously, Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

With Mac OS X, you are intended to leave the machine on all the time. Sleep uses only a miniscule amount more power than shutting the machine completely off.

What about a power surge? What will that do to a sleeping machine? There's no risk that a Mac that's asleep might ever turn itself on (accidentally or on purpose), is there?

For power surges, you get a freakin' UPS like any other computer owner. A box not connected to a UPS *will* die an unnatural death at some point.

Is there a risk that an unprotected Mac that's asleep might wake from sleep in response to a power surge, spike or other anomoly? Yes.

What would happen then? Assuming it didn't destroy the machine, the Mac would then put itself to sleep again however many minutes later you have it set to do so.

_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #24 - Posted 2002/01/22 - w_tom

Even UPS manufacturers don't make these protection claims. UPSes only spec differential mode surge protection. Destructive surges are common mode. Furthermore, UPSes don't provide the many page specs. The naive quickly 'assume' the term "surge protection" means all modes of surges. Basic knowledge - surge protection from common mode surges is earth ground. Effective surge protection makes an earth ground connection only during the surge. Therefore surge protection must connect less than 10 feet from critical earth ground. A plug-in UPS does not have common mode surge protection simply because it is too far from earth ground.

If computers were so easily damaged by surges, then we all are trooping to hardware stores weekly to replace dimmer switches, electronic light timers, touch on-off lamps, X-10 controllers, and GFCI for kitchen and bathrooms. None are on UPSes. None can be plugged into any surge protector. All are much more easily damaged by surges. A computer power supply must withstand 1000 volts differential and 2000 volts common mode transients. None of those above appliances will withstand that voltage. All could be damaged by surges too small to damage the computer. So why are we all not trooping weekly to the hardware store?

A proper recommendation for Mac surge protection would also protect all those other, more susceptible appliances. Such protection costs less for effective protection.

Surge protection is required in all homes. 'Whole house' surge protection costs about $1 per effectively protected appliance. Compare that to a $150 UPS recommendation for ineffective protection of only one appliance. The UPS recommendation is flawed, uses technical claims that the manufacturer does not even make, is too far from central earth ground to be effective, is undersized (insufficient joules rating), and costs about 150 times more per appliance for such ineffective surge protection.

Yes, surge protection is required if leaving an appliance connected. But effective surge protection shunts to earth ground before a surge can enter the building. Ineffective plug-in surge protection (UPS or power strip - they both use the same circuits) cannot be effective and is only recommended when one does not understand basic surge protection concepts. #1 - destructive surges are common mode. A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground connection.

Charles Martin wrote:

Previously, Keeper of the Purple Twilight wrote:

For power surges, you get a freakin' UPS like any other computer owner. A box not connected to a UPS *will* die an unnatural death at some point.

Is there a risk that an unprotected Mac that's asleep might wake from sleep in response to a power surge, spike or other anomoly? Yes.

What would happen then? Assuming it didn't destroy the machine, the Mac would then put itself to sleep again however many minutes later you have it set to do so.

Message #25 - Posted 2002/01/23 - zoara

Charles Martin wrote:

For power surges, you get a freakin' UPS like any other computer owner. A box not connected to a UPS *will* die an unnatural death at some point.

Does a laptop battery count?

-z-

forward error - strawberry unknown domain

Are you posting responses that are easy for others to follow? http://www.greenend.org.uk/rjk/2000/06/14/quoting

Message #26 - Posted 2002/01/23 - w_tom

The laptop battery is as effective as a UPS battery. The previous 'battery as a surge protector' theory assumed that destructive surges are differential mode. Destructive surges are common mode. A common mode surge will appear equally on both sides of the laptop battery. Therefore a battery never sees the surge that seeks earth ground, destructively, through a laptop.

Surge protection is earth ground. Surge protection is a building wide 'system'. However if Barnum were alive, he would be selling surge protectors since too many recommendations are made without any understanding of basic concepts such as differential vs common mode; or of how surges damage electronics. Destructive common mode surges will not even be seen by the laptop battery because common mode surges seek earth ground.

A surge protector is only as effective as its earth ground - today as it was proven in the 1930s. No earth ground means no effective surge protection. Those generations old principals have not changed.

So why do plug-in surge protectors forget to mention an inspection of household earth ground? Are they selling surge protection - or do they really have other alternative motives? Maybe if they mentioned critical earth ground, then you might start asking some embarrassing questions? Start asking. Notice that 'serious' surge protector manufacturers discuss earthing extensively. Maybe because they are really selling surge protection?
http://www.polyphaser.com/ppc_technical.asp .

Forget the nonsense about a battery providing protection. Common mode surges and even those above application notes make this obvious. A surge protector is only as effective as its connection to earth ground.

zoara wrote:

Charles Martin wrote:

For power surges, you get a freakin' UPS like any other computer owner. A box not connected to a UPS *will* die an unnatural death at some point.

Does a laptop battery count?

Message #27 - Posted 2002/01/24 - Matthew Russotto

Previously, w_tom wrote:

The laptop battery is as effective as a UPS battery. The previous 'battery as a surge protector' theory assumed that destructive surges are differential mode. Destructive surges are common mode. A common mode surge will appear equally on both sides of the laptop battery. Therefore a battery never sees the surge that seeks earth ground, destructively, through a laptop.

Now where is a surge going to find earth ground through an ungrounded laptop? --
Matthew T. Russotto mrussotto@speakeasy.net =====
Dmitry is free, but the DMCA survives. DMCA delenda est! "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."

Message #28 - Posted 2002/01/24 - w_tom

Some tabletops will complete a ground connection even though the table is considered non-conductive at lower voltages. Any cords draped onto a baseboard heater have a ground connection. The phone line is the most classic connection to earth. Even the human can be an intermittent ground connection. Depends on what is and is not grounded to the Mac. Some of those grounds are quite good. Others are marginal.

But properly noted, there must be that outgoing connection to ground to have surge damage. No outgoing path to earth ground means no surge damage. It is why two adjacent appliances; one may be damaged by the same surge that cannot find a path to earth ground through the other, undamaged appliance.

A laptop with only an AC outlet connection sitting on a glasstop table without human contact is unlikely to be damaged by a direct building (which also means a direct strike to streetside wires) lightning strike. However, installing 'whole house' surge protection at the service entrance and direct to central earth ground makes damage significantly less likely to the Mac and to every other household appliance.

As for a battery in an adjacent UPS or in the laptop: will not be effective at absorbing, stopping, or preventing common mode surge damage.

Matthew Russotto wrote:

Now where is a surge going to find earth ground through an ungrounded laptop?

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