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New MacBook Pro - should I let the battery drain and recharge

Message #1 - Posted 2006/05/22 - ben.necho

Just got a new shiny silver laptop - 2.1 core duo...

should I let the battery decharge completely before recharge. I remember I was once told this was necessary to keep the battery healthy?

Message #2 - Posted 2006/05/22 - Elliott Roper

Previously, <ben.necho@yahoo.com> wrote:

Just got a new shiny silver laptop - 2.1 core duo...

should I let the battery decharge completely before recharge. I remember I was once told this was necessary to keep the battery healthy?

Just once when new and once every few months to calibrate it. Li-ion batteries are not nearly as fussy as the old stuff.

My batteries last for a couple of years sitting mostly between 90-100% with the charger plugged in.

To de-mung my e-mail address:- fsnospam$elliott$$
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Message #3 - Posted 2006/05/22 - J. J. Lodder

<ben.necho wrote:

Just got a new shiny silver laptop - 2.1 core duo...

should I let the battery decharge completely before recharge. I remember I was once told this was necessary to keep the battery healthy?

My my, you -are- old.
This was back in the stone age,
when they still used NiCads.

Lithium-ion batteries are best kept full,

Jan

Message #4 - Posted 2006/05/24 - Mr. Tapeguy

ben.necho@yahoo.com wrote:

Just got a new shiny silver laptop - 2.1 core duo...

should I let the battery decharge completely before recharge. I remember I was once told this was necessary to keep the battery healthy?

Congrats...enjoy.

Lithium-Ion batteries ostensibly have no memory and are best kept full; however, I think it best to let it run down every once in a while. I do this somewhat automatically when moving around the house to do computer work and if you're using a laptop a lot, it seems it would be common for this to occur naturally. After all, if you didn't need the portability you presumably would have bought a desktop.

Craig

http://www.pro-tape.com

Authorized Apple Sales - Service - IT Support - Training - Pro Video and Audio Solutions

Message #5 - Posted 2006/05/24 - Tim Auton

"Mr. Tapeguy" <mr.tapeguy@pro-tape.com> wrote: [batteries]

Lithium-Ion batteries ostensibly have no memory and are best kept full; however, I think it best to let it run down every once in a while. I do this somewhat automatically when moving around the house to do computer work and if you're using a laptop a lot, it seems it would be common for this to occur naturally.

What's not entirely natural, but is required, is to let it run all the way down till it goes to sleep. That resets the capacity meter in the smart battery. If you don't do this regularly (Apple recommends once a month) the battery level indicator will become increasingly inaccurate.

Tim

Did I really still have that sig?

Message #6 - Posted 2006/05/24 - Peter Ceresole

Mr. Tapeguy wrote:

Lithium-Ion batteries ostensibly have no memory and are best kept full; however, I think it best to let it run down every once in a while. I do this somewhat automatically when moving around the house to do computer work and if you're using a laptop a lot, it seems it would be common for this to occur naturally. After all, if you didn't need the portability you presumably would have bought a desktop.

Presumably maybe... When I bought a 667 TiBook some 3 1/2 years ago, it was as a 'portable desktop'. It did the job nicely and I used it in two places, with just a little bit of use on the road. It's spent most of its time plugged into the mains and I only rarely ran it right down. Battery life was initially around 4 hours, but now it's down to an hour. Considering its age, I reckon it's held up well.

As others have said, this has resulted in the battery level meter being way off; it appears to be holding out well at the start of a session, but some time after an hour and still indicating 50-60%, it suddenly heads south. If I were using it regularly away from home, I'd do a calibration discharge. But to be honest, I know roughly what's going on and it works well enough for my purposes.

Peter

Message #7 - Posted 2006/05/25 - Roger Merriman

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Mr. Tapeguy wrote:

Lithium-Ion batteries ostensibly have no memory and are best kept full; however, I think it best to let it run down every once in a while. I do this somewhat automatically when moving around the house to do computer work and if you're using a laptop a lot, it seems it would be common for this to occur naturally. After all, if you didn't need the portability you presumably would have bought a desktop.

Presumably maybe... When I bought a 667 TiBook some 3 1/2 years ago, it was as a 'portable desktop'. It did the job nicely and I used it in two places, with just a little bit of use on the road. It's spent most of its time plugged into the mains and I only rarely ran it right down. Battery life was initially around 4 hours, but now it's down to an hour. Considering its age, I reckon it's held up well.

As others have said, this has resulted in the battery level meter being way off; it appears to be holding out well at the start of a session, but some time after an hour and still indicating 50-60%, it suddenly heads south. If I were using it regularly away from home, I'd do a calibration discharge. But to be honest, I know roughly what's going on and it works well enough for my purposes.

does seem to depend on useage, my lappy's battery has a fairly impressive number of cycle counts, 1000+ and counting and will last over 2 hrs still, it's over 3 years now. although it doesn't like sleeping much and looses a fair chunk of power in sleep so if left a sleep over night it often will be either dead or very close by the mounring.

but they are desgined to be used pointless to worry really, just use them.

roger

Message #8 - Posted 2006/05/26 - Chip G.

Previously, J. J. Lodder wrote:

Lithium-ion batteries are best kept full,

I'm not buying that. I just replaced my original 17" tibook. It is just over three years old. The battery went from 2.5 hours when I first got it to 1.5 hours now. The reason is because I kept it plugged in almost all the time and very rarely exercised it. I think the current advise is to drain down (completely) and recharge your powerbook battery about once per month. If you do that I think you can have just about any usage pattern with minimal impact. Apple even had at one time an iCal appointment you could subscribe to which would remind you to drain/recharge your battery (iPod included).

YMMV.

--Chip
remove dots in prefix to fix email address

Message #9 - Posted 2006/05/26 - Garner Miller

Previously, Chip G. wrote:

Previously, J. J. Lodder wrote:

Lithium-ion batteries are best kept full,

I'm not buying that.

Well, it's true.

I just replaced my original 17" tibook. It is just over three years old. The battery went from 2.5 hours when I first got it to 1.5 hours now. The reason is because I kept it plugged in almost all the time and very rarely exercised it.

The "exercising" is to keep the battery level gauge calibrated, not to keep the battery itself healthy. Deep-discharging is about the worst thing you can do for a lithium-based rechargeable battery. A single full discharge will wear the battery more than multiple partial discharges that would give the same run time.

Your battery's life isn't simply limited by the number of cycles, but also by the calendar. At 3 years, it's starting to lose some of its viability due to simple oxidation, irrespective of how many discharges you've made. Deep discharges would simply have made its overall life even shorter.

Here's some more information that may answer some questions about Lithium batteries, which have *very* different properties than the Nickel-based ones of years past:

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Hope that helps.

Garner R. Miller
Clifton Park, NY =USA=
http://www.garnermiller.com/

Message #10 - Posted 2006/05/27 - Peter Ceresole

Garner Miller wrote:

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/parttwo-34.htm

Hope that helps.

It does. It confirms what I've seen in practice with a TiBook. Thank you.

Peter

Message #11 - Posted 2006/05/27 - J. J. Lodder

Chip G. wrote:

Previously, J. J. Lodder wrote:

Lithium-ion batteries are best kept full,

I'm not buying that.

Physics dosn't care about being bought.

I just replaced my original 17" tibook. It is just over three years old. The battery went from 2.5 hours when I first got it to 1.5 hours now.

Batteries also deteriorate without being used.

The reason is because I kept it plugged in almost all the time and very rarely exercised it.

Tb=hat's what -you think- the reason is.

I think the current advise
is to drain down (completely) and recharge your powerbook battery about once per month. If you do that I think you can have just about any usage pattern with minimal impact. Apple even had at one time an iCal appointment you could subscribe to which would remind you to drain/recharge your battery (iPod included).

That serves to recalibrate the powermanager in your PoBo.
It does nothing for the battery,

Jan

Message #12 - Posted 2006/05/27 - Thomas Seay

Previously, ben.necho@yahoo.com wrote:

Just got a new shiny silver laptop - 2.1 core duo...

should I let the battery decharge completely before recharge. I remember I was once told this was necessary to keep the battery healthy?

Here's what Apple recommends:

http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html

Tom

Message #13 - Posted 2006/05/28 - Chip G.

Previously, J. J. Lodder wrote:

I just replaced my original 17" tibook. It is just over three years old. The battery went from 2.5 hours when I first got it to 1.5 hours now.

Batteries also deteriorate without being used.

The reason is because I kept it plugged in almost all the time and very rarely exercised it.

Tb=hat's what -you think- the reason is.

I think the current advise
is to drain down (completely) and recharge your powerbook battery about once per month. If you do that I think you can have just about any usage pattern with minimal impact. Apple even had at one time an iCal appointment you could subscribe to which would remind you to drain/recharge your battery (iPod included).

That serves to recalibrate the powermanager in your PoBo.
It does nothing for the battery,

Not just what I think ... Here's what Apple has to say about it:

If on the other hand, you use a desktop computer at work, and save a notebook for infrequent travel, Apple recommends charging and discharging its battery at least once per month. Need a reminder? Add an event to your desktopπs iCal.

So, you should do a full discharge once per month if you don't routinely use it on the battery. Which is pretty much what I said in my original post.

--Chip
remove dots in prefix to fix email address

Message #14 - Posted 2006/05/29 - J. J. Lodder

Chip G. wrote:

Previously, J. J. Lodder wrote:

I just replaced my original 17" tibook. It is just over three years old. The battery went from 2.5 hours when I first got it to 1.5 hours now.

Batteries also deteriorate without being used.

The reason is because I kept it plugged in almost all the time and very rarely exercised it.

Tb=hat's what -you think- the reason is.

I think the current advise
is to drain down (completely) and recharge your powerbook battery about once per month. If you do that I think you can have just about any usage pattern with minimal impact. Apple even had at one time an iCal appointment you could subscribe to which would remind you to drain/recharge your battery (iPod included).

That serves to recalibrate the powermanager in your PoBo.
It does nothing for the battery,

Not just what I think ... Here's what Apple has to say about it:

If on the other hand, you use a desktop computer at work, and save a notebook for infrequent travel, Apple recommends charging and discharging its battery at least once per month. Need a reminder? Add an event to your desktop's iCal.

So, you should do a full discharge once per month if you don't routinely use it on the battery. Which is pretty much what I said in my original post.

Aparently you forgot in the meantime what you sugested:
===

should I let the battery decharge completely before recharge. I remember I was once told this was necessary to keep the battery healthy?

===

which is almost the opposite.

No, you should -not- drain a lithium battery completely before recharging it. (like a NiCad)
You should (if possible) recharge it immediately after use, independently of how much you used.

The complete drain is bad for the Li battery.
You do it to calibrate your 'hours left' counter.

Best,

Jan

Message #15 - Posted 2006/05/29 - Peter Ceresole

Peter Ceresole wrote:

When I bought a 667 TiBook some 3 1/2 years ago, it was as a 'portable desktop'. ......

.............

Battery life was initially around 4 hours, but now it's down to an hour. Considering its age, I reckon it's held up well.

Some days pass and right now in City Airport I spent a little time on battery power. 'Little' is right, as from 97% t0 6% took about 25 minutes. I now think of it as a symbolic battery- although I suppose it's calibrated now. Is going down to 6% and shutting down before the flashing signs and the dire warnings enough? Or do I have to let it die?

Anyway, the next trick is to decide whether or not it's worth spending all that money on a new battery. Given that the only place I run it away from home (or my friends' homes) is in airports, and they all have mains power conveniently available, I think maybe I'll save the cash. And after buying the lovely Lumix, another technospend would spell D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Or at the very least, hell and high water.

Anyway any fule kno that the best way to get a new battery is to get a MacBook. But although the BAe 146 I'll be flying in (HB-IXP, just taxying up to the gate) is fat, it's not quite a pig. And anyway, 25 minutes is enough for anybody.

Peter

Message #16 - Posted 2006/05/30 - Roger Merriman

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

When I bought a 667 TiBook some 3 1/2 years ago, it was as a 'portable desktop'. ......

.............

Battery life was initially around 4 hours, but now it's down to an hour. Considering its age, I reckon it's held up well.

Some days pass and right now in City Airport I spent a little time on battery power. 'Little' is right, as from 97% t0 6% took about 25 minutes. I now think of it as a symbolic battery- although I suppose it's calibrated now. Is going down to 6% and shutting down before the flashing signs and the dire warnings enough? Or do I have to let it die?

if it lasts long enought for you then thats fine. i still get over 2 hrs out of mine so thats not bad, for a 3 year old battery. though it will not hold any charge over time. if it's at 50% in the evening don't expect it to have any juse next mounring it will have just seeped away.

Anyway, the next trick is to decide whether or not it's worth spending all that money on a new battery. Given that the only place I run it away from home (or my friends' homes) is in airports, and they all have mains power conveniently available, I think maybe I'll save the cash. And after buying the lovely Lumix, another technospend would spell D-I-V-O-R-C-E. Or at the very least, hell and high water.

heh yes!

Anyway any fule kno that the best way to get a new battery is to get a MacBook. But although the BAe 146 I'll be flying in (HB-IXP, just taxying up to the gate) is fat, it's not quite a pig. And anyway, 25 minutes is enough for anybody.

well enought for you. 25mins would be far too little, at the moment the battery is fine. going to get Sa's new battery for her powerbook as it lasted a hour at most which was just too little as the macbooks are nice but not must haves at least not yet not untill the kill app what ever that might be is x86 only.

roger

Message #17 - Posted 2006/05/30 - Peter Ceresole

Roger Merriman wrote:

And anyway, 25
minutes is enough for anybody.

well enought for you.

Well, I was thinking in the '640K of RAM should be enough for anybody' style.

Since the fellow went on to become the richest man in the world, there must be *something* in it,

Peter

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