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OK to leave powerbook switched on all the time??

Message #1 - Posted 2005/07/10 - Seuss

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life. Apart from that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

Message #2 - Posted 2005/07/11 - Bill

Previously, Seuss wrote:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life. Apart from that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

I've been using PowerBook and now iBook for several years.

I set the Energy Saver control panel to put it to sleep after a while. I think the default settings on the Energy Saver are appropriate. other than that, I leave it on.

The backlight on the display has a finite life, so having it go off after a while is desirable.

Bill

For email, remove invalid.

Message #3 - Posted 2005/07/10 - aajoyce

I've used a PowerBook G3 and now a G4 for several years. I never shut them down unless there arises a problem where I have no other choice (such as upgrading software or when something just doesn't want to work right). I will regularly let my battery take over when I'm using the machine so as to cycle the battery to get optimal life out of it. But I don't shut the machine off, I just close the lid and put it to sleep. Then it's there in a second when I open the lid. My display is set to never sleep because I want my machine always ready to go when I'm using it. I often use it for presentations and if I'm hesitating on a particular Keynote slide for a while, I don't want the screen saver coming on and messing things up. Screen savers aren't that necessary anymore since it's an LCD rather and a CRT. You don't have "burn-in" on an LCD.

Hope this gives another perspective to you.

Art

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Message #4 - Posted 2005/07/11 - Peter Ceresole

Bill wrote:

The backlight on the display has a finite life, so having it go off after a while is desirable.

That's the important issue. The screens do dim a bit with use and sleeping the screen, at least, when its not in direct use is a good idea.

From the green perspective, we've done some extremely ballparkish calculations here in the past; it seems that if the machine's going to be on standby for up to several hours, then sleeping is the best option and uses less juice than stopping and starting. If it's a case of several days, then switching off and restarting postpones the end of the world as we know it by several microseconds.

Peter

Message #5 - Posted 2005/07/11 - Bonge Boo!

On 11/7/05 01:41, in article 11d3g2leavbnj12@news.supernews.com, Seuss wrote:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life. Apart from that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

Put it to sleep. Save a few kilos of CO2

Message #6 - Posted 2005/07/11 - Tim Auton

Seuss wrote:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life. Apart from that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

I'd set it to put itself to sleep. Monitor after 20 minutes or so, sleep after an hour or two (or whatever works for you). All laptops run fairly warm, which isn't the best thing for your hard drive or battery. The backlight has a finite lifetime too. They are engineered to take the heat of course, so it's not a concern for normal use, but it's enough to make me advise against leaving it on 24/7.

Wake from sleep only takes a couple of seconds. I wouldn't switch it off unless you were going away for a few days.

Tim

Today's message was brought to you by Mary, Jane and a big number two.

Message #7 - Posted 2005/07/11 - J. J. Lodder

Seuss wrote:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life.

You know wrong.
That was back in the olden days of the NiCads.
Li-ion batteries are best kept fully charged.

Apart from
that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

Best to close the lid when you are not using it,
in order not to wear out the backlight,

Jan

Message #8 - Posted 2005/07/11 - Peter Ceresole

J. J. Lodder wrote:

You know wrong.
That was back in the olden days of the NiCads.
Li-ion batteries are best kept fully charged.

I thought that too, but I was wrong. Apple's advice is to run down Li-ion batteries once a month- I think that's the frequency. Maybe a bit less often.

In practice I find that a pain in the arse and I've always kept my 667 TiBook's battery fully charged. But after three and a bit years battery life is down to an hour and a half (or so). If I'd done the regular monthly discharge maybe it would be better.

Peter

Message #9 - Posted 2005/07/12 - Tariq

Peter Ceresole wrote:

You know wrong.
That was back in the olden days of the NiCads.
Li-ion batteries are best kept fully charged.

I thought that too, but I was wrong. Apple's advice is to run down Li-ion batteries once a month- I think that's the frequency. Maybe a bit less often.

In practice I find that a pain in the arse and I've always kept my 667 TiBook's battery fully charged. But after three and a bit years battery life is down to an hour and a half (or so). If I'd done the regular monthly discharge maybe it would be better.

When using the iBook at my desk, I take the battery out and plug into the mains (unless the battery needs charging up) after bad experiences with IBM LiIon laptop batteries in the past. To leave the battery connected all the time, to me, is too much of a risk when it could screw up and cost =A380-90 to replace.

Tariq

Message #10 - Posted 2005/07/12 - RichardK

Peter Ceresole wrote:

If I'd done the regular
monthly discharge maybe it would be better.

Maybe the fairer sex gets better battery longevity...

Richard

RichardK - 1980s in a can. http://www.dmc12.demon.co.uk/music/ Retro computing - http://www.dmc12.demon.co.uk/retrotech/ Cars - 2004 Beetle Cabrio, 1989 Supra 3.0i, 1990 Sera, 1989 Volvo 740 MidiGuitar, AU/X. Apple 77-04. See links. Email - upgrade to 128 ;)

Message #11 - Posted 2005/07/12 - Simon Slavin

On 10/07/2005, Seuss wrote in message <11d3g2leavbnj12@news.supernews.com>:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life. Apart from that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

Let the computer sleep when you're not using it. Reboot it once every month or so (I'm just being superstitious).

Pull the battery out and put it on a shelf somewhere. Once every month or so, put it in, use the computer until it goes to sleep because it has run out of power, charge the battery back up again, then pull it out and put it back on the shelf.

Simon.

Using pre-release version of newsreader.
Please tell me if it does weird things.

Message #12 - Posted 2005/07/13 - Richardfd

Simon Slavin wrote:

Let the computer sleep when you're not using it. Reboot it once every month or so (I'm just being superstitious).

Pull the battery out and put it on a shelf somewhere. Once every month or so, put it in, use the computer until it goes to sleep because it has run out of power, charge the battery back up again, then pull it out and put it back on the shelf.

Simon.

Is this advisable for all pbs? My Lombard is seldom used on battery, probably once a week, its otherwise just on and plugged to mains. But the battery life is decreasing rapidly each time I use it, down to around 90 minutes. assumed this was just age

Richard

Message #13 - Posted 2005/07/13 - Roger Merriman

Tariq wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

You know wrong.
That was back in the olden days of the NiCads.
Li-ion batteries are best kept fully charged.

I thought that too, but I was wrong. Apple's advice is to run down Li-ion batteries once a month- I think that's the frequency. Maybe a bit less often.

In practice I find that a pain in the arse and I've always kept my 667 TiBook's battery fully charged. But after three and a bit years battery life is down to an hour and a half (or so). If I'd done the regular monthly discharge maybe it would be better.

When using the iBook at my desk, I take the battery out and plug into the mains (unless the battery needs charging up) after bad experiences with IBM LiIon laptop batteries in the past. To leave the battery connected all the time, to me, is too much of a risk when it could screw up and cost £80-90 to replace.

Tariq

Um batteries will tend to degrade over time if not used, infact most aren't terribly keen on been left unused for any lenth of time, as far i am aware any way.

roger

Message #14 - Posted 2005/07/13 - Tim Auton

J. J. Lodder wrote:

Seuss wrote:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life.

You know wrong.
That was back in the olden days of the NiCads.
Li-ion batteries are best kept fully charged.

The cells may like to be kept fully charged, or rather don't like to be kept discharged, but the charge control electronics need periodic recalibration. Apple say a full discharge/charge cycle every couple of months.

Tim

Today's message was brought to you by Mary, Jane and a big number two.

Message #15 - Posted 2005/07/13 - Phil Taylor

Previously, Tim Auton wrote:

J. J. Lodder wrote:

Seuss wrote:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life.

You know wrong.
That was back in the olden days of the NiCads.
Li-ion batteries are best kept fully charged.

The cells may like to be kept fully charged, or rather don't like to be kept discharged, but the charge control electronics need periodic recalibration. Apple say a full discharge/charge cycle every couple of months.

I believe that Apple also say that if the battery is to remain unused for any great length of time it should be stored 50% charged.

Phil Taylor

Message #16 - Posted 2005/07/13 - Richardfd

Phil Taylor wrote:

I believe that Apple also say that if the battery is to remain unused for any great length of time it should be stored 50% charged.

Can you define "any great length of time" ?

Richard

Message #17 - Posted 2005/07/13 - David C.

Seuss <seuss@nospam.com> writes:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life. Apart from that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

I don't think periodic sleep/shutdown is necessary.

I would, as others have said, configure it to put the display to sleep, however. The backlight on an LCD panel will burn out eventually. If you're like most people, you won't spend the majority of each 24 hour period actively using the computer. If you use it 8 hours a day, that's 1/3 of the time. By sleeping the display during those other 16 hours, you will triple the life of the backlight (vs. leaving it on 24/7).

Other components (CPU, hard drive, etc.) shouldn't have a problem being left on all the time. And, depending on who you ask, some will say leaving them on will make them last longer.

WRT energy saving, that's between you, your power company, and your conscience.

-- David

Message #18 - Posted 2005/07/13 - David C.

Simon Slavin <slavins.delete.these.four.words@hearsay.demon.co.uk> writes:

Pull the battery out and put it on a shelf somewhere. Once every month or so, put it in, use the computer until it goes to sleep because it has run out of power, charge the battery back up again, then pull it out and put it back on the shelf.

Bad advice.

Letting a battery run down to nothing once in a while is important for nickel-based batteries (like NiCd and NiMh), since it helps prevent chemical changes that reduce the battery's ability to hold a useful charge.

For batteries without nickel, like the Li-ion used in laptop computers, this is not necessary. And according to some sources, it may even shorten the lifespan. (Lithium cells do not like to be completely drained.)

Furthermore, from a purely practical standpoint, a battery is a built-in UPS. If you run your laptop without the battery in it, a power glitch will result in a crashed/rebooted computer, just like it does to your desktop. If you leave the battery installed, it will let you ride out power disturbances.

And if you configure the Energy Saver control panel with different settings for on-battery and on-line, you can even get most of the functionality of a UPS - letting it shut down or go to sleep if too much time elapses without line power.

-- David

Message #19 - Posted 2005/07/13 - The Older Gentleman

Simon Slavin wrote:

On 10/07/2005, Seuss wrote in message <11d3g2leavbnj12@news.supernews.com>:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life. Apart from that, is it OK to leave it connected to the mains the other 95% of the time with the computer on all the time (as I would with a real desktop with the display off when it's not in use) or is it better to put the machine to sleep/off?

Let the computer sleep when you're not using it. Reboot it once every month or so (I'm just being superstitious).

Pull the battery out and put it on a shelf somewhere. Once every month or so, put it in, use the computer until it goes to sleep because it has run out of power, charge the battery back up again, then pull it out and put it back on the shelf.

That eminds me. Someone's offering me a decent second-hand iBook battery (not one of the recalled series, either) for £25. Bargain? I see they're £75 or so new.

The thing is, I don't actually need a spare battery, so this comes over as a bargain for the sake of it or, as my Ma is fond of saying, "like buying mink in a sale".

Trophy 1200 750SS CB750F2 CB400F CD200 CB125S DT50MX GAGARPHOF#30 GHPOTHUF#1 BOTAFOT#60 ANORAK#06 YTC#3
BOF#30 WUSS#5 The bells, the bells.....

Message #20 - Posted 2005/07/13 - Phil Taylor

Previously, Richardfd wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

I believe that Apple also say that if the battery is to remain unused for any great length of time it should be stored 50% charged.

Can you define "any great length of time" ?

Six months:

<http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html>

Phil Taylor

Message #21 - Posted 2005/07/13 - Gregory Blank

Previously, David C. wrote:

Furthermore, from a purely practical standpoint, a battery is a built-in UPS. If you run your laptop without the battery in it, a power glitch will result in a crashed/rebooted computer, just like it does to your desktop. If you leave the battery installed, it will let you ride out power disturbances.

Thats what I have always done :)

LF Website @ http://members.verizon.net/~gregoryblank

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Message #22 - Posted 2005/07/14 - Chris Ridd

On 13/7/05 11:48, in article 130720052348434404%nothere@all.invalid, Phil Taylor wrote:

Previously, Richardfd wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

I believe that Apple also say that if the battery is to remain unused for any great length of time it should be stored 50% charged.

Can you define "any great length of time" ?

Six months:

<http://www.apple.com/batteries/notebooks.html>

In other words, what Apple do when your Powerbook order "ships" :-))

Cheers,

Chris

Message #23 - Posted 2005/07/14 - J. J. Lodder

Tim Auton wrote:

J. J. Lodder wrote:

Seuss wrote:

I'm using a 15"PB as a desktop replacement. I know that I need to exercise the battery occasionally to maximize it's life.

You know wrong.
That was back in the olden days of the NiCads.
Li-ion batteries are best kept fully charged.

The cells may like to be kept fully charged, or rather don't like to be kept discharged, but the charge control electronics need periodic recalibration. Apple say a full discharge/charge cycle every couple of months.

All that is good for is a slightly more accurate estimate
of time remaining, I guess,

Jan

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