The conversation on this page has been archived and is no longer active.

Power quality utility?

Message #1 - Posted 2008/02/22 - The New guy

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

Message #2 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Mike Rosenberg

The New guy wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/musings.cgi> Muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart

Message #3 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Mike Rosenberg

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/musings.cgi> Muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart

Message #4 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Michael Vilain

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...

Message #5 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Steven Fisher

On 2008-02-22 12:03:50 -0800, The New guy said:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I don't think this information is available past the computer's power supply, so you won't find a program to do it.

This is something I've wonreded about, too. Connecting to the same computer with the same cabling, my cinema display frequently acts up at my house, but works perfectly in the office.

Message #6 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Tom Stiller

Previously, Michael Vilain wrote:

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

I think it's those new "green" electrons; they're not as highly charged.

Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

Message #7 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Mike Rosenberg

Tom Stiller wrote:

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

I think it's those new "green" electrons; they're not as highly charged.

Positive?

<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/musings.cgi> Muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart

Message #8 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Jim Gibson

Previously, The New guy wrote:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I don't know the answer to your question, but if you are concerned about power conditioning you should invest in an "in-line" uninterruptible power supply (UPS) for your computer. The in-line type charges the battery using wall socket power and uses the battery to power an inverter for its output power. Belkin and APC make them. The Belkin (at least) comes with software that might include a function for monitoring the input power, but the software is mostly concerned whether there is sufficient average input power to keep the battery charged. For actual monitoring of power spikes, you probably need hardware.

Your computer power supply converts 110VAC to various lower DC levels using diodes, rectifiers, and capacitors, and, in the process of doing that, acts like a big power filter.

Jim Gibson

Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services ---------------------------------------------------------- ** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY ** ---------------------------------------------------------- http://www.usenet.com

Message #9 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Lewis

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Tom Stiller wrote:

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

I think it's those new "green" electrons; they're not as highly charged.

Positive?

Of course not, they're electrons!

Bart: This is the worst day of my life.
Homer: This is the worst day of your life SO FAR.

Message #10 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Dave Balderstone

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

Did you hear about the Chinese shipment of lead that had to be recalled?

Contaminated with toys and pet food...

Help improve usenet. Kill-file Google Groups.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Message #11 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Tom Harrington

Previously, Tom Stiller wrote:

Previously, Michael Vilain wrote:

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

I think it's those new "green" electrons; they're not as highly charged.

I've been using the new compact fluorescent electrons. The color's a little off, but they do the job.

Tom "Tom" Harrington
Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002
http://www.atomicbird.com/

Message #12 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Tom Harrington

Previously, The New guy wrote:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I don't think your Mac can get that information, but there are dedicated devices that might do it. The Kill-A-Watt, for example, claims to check up on your power quality. It's not too expensive-- see info at <http://www.p3international.com/products/special/P4400/P4400-CE.html>.

Tom "Tom" Harrington
Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002
http://www.atomicbird.com/

Message #13 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Bill Rider

Steven Fisher wrote:

On 2008-02-22 12:03:50 -0800, The New guy said:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I don't think this information is available past the computer's power supply, so you won't find a program to do it.

This is something I've wonreded about, too. Connecting to the same computer with the same cabling, my cinema display frequently acts up at my house, but works perfectly in the office.

It can be done with Linux:

http://brneurosci.org/linuxsetup77.html

Message #14 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Tom Stiller

Previously, Tom Harrington wrote:

Previously, Tom Stiller wrote:

Previously, Michael Vilain wrote:

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

I think it's those new "green" electrons; they're not as highly charged.

I've been using the new compact fluorescent electrons. The color's a little off, but they do the job.

Yeah, but they're slow to come on.

Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

Message #15 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Richard Maine

Tom Stiller wrote:

Previously, Tom Harrington wrote:

Previously, Tom Stiller wrote:

Previously, Michael Vilain wrote:

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

I think it's those new "green" electrons; they're not as highly charged.

I've been using the new compact fluorescent electrons. The color's a little off, but they do the job.

Yeah, but they're slow to come on.

Slow is better than too fast when it comes to comming on. :-) or in as the case may be.

Richard Maine | Good judgement comes from experience; email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgement. domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain

Message #16 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Mike Rosenberg

Lewis wrote:

I think it's those new "green" electrons; they're not as highly charged.

Positive?

Of course not, they're electrons!

I can't tell you how disappointed I would have been if no one had responded like that.

<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/musings.cgi> Muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart

Message #17 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Tom Harrington

Previously, Bill Rider wrote:

Steven Fisher wrote:

On 2008-02-22 12:03:50 -0800, The New guy said:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I don't think this information is available past the computer's power supply, so you won't find a program to do it.

This is something I've wonreded about, too. Connecting to the same computer with the same cabling, my cinema display frequently acts up at my house, but works perfectly in the office.

It can be done with Linux:

http://brneurosci.org/linuxsetup77.html

Sort of. It can be done with Linux if you have an APC UPS and you use the custom APC serial cable to connect the UPS to the computer. The computer can't monitor the power quality, even with Linux, but an APC UPS will supply the information to the serial port if you want. The same kind of thing is possible on Mac OS X with USB-- see <http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/JMIS-6KSRLT_R0_EN.pdf>.

Tom "Tom" Harrington
Independent Mac OS X developer since 2002
http://www.atomicbird.com/

Message #18 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Bill Rider

Tom Harrington wrote:

Previously, Bill Rider wrote:

Steven Fisher wrote:

On 2008-02-22 12:03:50 -0800, The New guy said:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I don't think this information is available past the computer's power supply, so you won't find a program to do it.

This is something I've wonreded about, too. Connecting to the same computer with the same cabling, my cinema display frequently acts up at my house, but works perfectly in the office.

It can be done with Linux:

http://brneurosci.org/linuxsetup77.html

Sort of. It can be done with Linux if you have an APC UPS and you use the custom APC serial cable to connect the UPS to the computer. The computer can't monitor the power quality, even with Linux, but an APC UPS will supply the information to the serial port if you want. The same kind of thing is possible on Mac OS X with USB-- see <http://www.apcmedia.com/salestools/JMIS-6KSRLT_R0_EN.pdf>.

Here's one for under $1000:
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OM-PQR1010&Nav=e01

I imagine there are fairly inexpensive ICs that would monitor voltage including transients and provide a digital output. I wonder how one could feed the signal to a computer without providing a path for dangerous surges. Optical coupling?

Message #19 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Randy Howard

On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:36:39 -0600, Steven Fisher wrote (in a previous article):

On 2008-02-22 12:03:50 -0800, The New guy said:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I don't think this information is available past the computer's power supply, so you won't find a program to do it.

Actually, some UPS systems monitor and optionally track the input voltage variations over time. There is also dedicated hardware that can be put in to sample and record such things in cases where you suspect power problems.

Some power supply systems used in audiophile situations actually regenerate the outgoing power signal to try and clean it up and make it closer to ideal, but they cost insane amounts of money.

They are generally but not always called "AC line conditioners".

Randy Howard (2reply remove FOOBAR)
"The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

Message #20 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Matthew T. Russotto

Previously, Michael Vilain wrote:

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity.

I've heard that some of them are now using cheap imported electrons.

I forgot to mention that I've heard the Chinese are dumping lead-contaminated electrons.

Then there's the Australian and South African electrons that spin in the opposite direction...

My power company is so frigging cheap that they don't even send me new electrons, they're all refurbished. I swear it's just the same ones over and over.

There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one.

Message #21 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Jeffrey Goldberg

In , Bill Rider wrote:

It can be done with Linux:

http://brneurosci.org/linuxsetup77.html

That's not a linux thing, that's an APC UPS thing. You can do precisely the same thing with OS X. apcupsd runs just fine on OS X.

-j

Jeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Message #22 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Jeffrey Goldberg

In , Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

My power company is so frigging cheap that they don't even send me new electrons, they're all refurbished. I swear it's just the same ones over and over.

You should speak to them directly about that.

-j

Jeffrey Goldberg http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/ I rarely read top-posted, over-quoting or HTML postings.
http://improve-usenet.org/

Message #23 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Michelle Steiner

Previously, Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

My power company is so frigging cheap that they don't even send me new electrons, they're all refurbished. I swear it's just the same ones over and over.

That's three.

Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Message #24 - Posted 2008/02/22 - Michelle Steiner

Previously, Richard Maine wrote:

Slow is better than too fast when it comes to comming on. :-) or in as the case may be.

Or just plain coming.

Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Message #25 - Posted 2008/02/23 - billy

The New guy <noemailhere@please.comm> writes:

Is there any software program that can measure any power characteristics? I'm suspecting my power company is not supplying very good electricity. Or do I have to use hardware to measure the voltage deviations over time?

I have a power analyzer (a piece of hardware) and software that records what it sees. It cost slightly more than the computer (iBook) I use to do the logging...... Anyway, yes, you'd need some external hardware to make the measurements.

Some power companies will provide something like this for a short time. You can explain what's bothering you to yours, and see if they're willing to be that helpful.

Billy Y..

Message #26 - Posted 2008/02/23 - billy

Bill Rider <please@nospa.mnet> writes:

Here's one for under $1000:

By five bucks. Heh.

http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=OM-PQR1010&Nav=e01

But, yues, this is what it takes to find problems. It's also similar to what some power companies will provide.

Billy Y..

Message #27 - Posted 2008/02/23 - billy

Randy Howard <randyhoward@fooverizonbar.net> writes:

Some power supply systems used in audiophile situations actually regenerate the outgoing power signal to try and clean it up and make it closer to ideal, but they cost insane amounts of money.

Here's what I use (I record sound for film and TV shows) -

http://amberindustries.com/pages/linecordseries.htm http://amberindustries.com/pdf/linecord.pdf http://amberindustries.com/pages/faqs.htm

These are sort of reasonably priced, I think below $300 for the largest one, and they work very well. They are built to order, so it takes about a week to get one.

Billy Y..

Message #28 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Matthew T. Russotto

Previously, Jeffrey Goldberg wrote:

In , Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

My power company is so frigging cheap that they don't even send me new electrons, they're all refurbished. I swear it's just the same ones over and over.

You should speak to them directly about that.

I can't, they're AC!

There's no such thing as a free lunch, but certain accounting practices can result in a fully-depreciated one.

Message #29 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Mike Rosenberg

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

You should speak to them directly about that.

I can't, they're AC!

Ohm my, I'll tell you watt, it's really hard to keep current in this thread. I may have to revolt.

<http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/musings.cgi> Muckraking T-shirts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://bogart-tribute.net> Tribute to Humphrey Bogart

Message #30 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Tom Stiller

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

You should speak to them directly about that.

I can't, they're AC!

Ohm my, I'll tell you watt, it's really hard to keep current in this thread. I may have to revolt.

Relax and chant Ohm.

Tom Stiller

PGP fingerprint = 5108 DDB2 9761 EDE5 E7E3 7BDA 71ED 6496 99C0 C7CF

Message #31 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Neill Massello

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

My power company is so frigging cheap that they don't even send me new electrons, they're all refurbished.

Well at least they're refurbished. Do you realize that thousands of bridges have decaying protons?

Message #32 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Michelle Steiner

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

You should speak to them directly about that.

I can't, they're AC!

Ohm my, I'll tell you watt, it's really hard to keep current in this thread. I may have to revolt.

That was electrifying, but you're grounded.

Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Message #33 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Bill Rider

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

You should speak to them directly about that.

I can't, they're AC!

Ohm my, I'll tell you watt, it's really hard to keep current in this thread. I may have to revolt.

There seems to be a chip on your shoulder. Wire you complaining? What do you have to gain? Don't you have the capacitance to follow it? I think you have the potential to do better. Your resistance makes it hard for the group to conduct this conversation. I hope this constructive criticism rectifies the situation by coaxing you to transform your attitude. IC, do you see? No mho static, ok?

Message #34 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Michelle Steiner

Previously, Neill Massello wrote:

My power company is so frigging cheap that they don't even send me new electrons, they're all refurbished.

Well at least they're refurbished. Do you realize that thousands of bridges have decaying protons?

It seems to me that there are two sides to this argument; I'm not going to take sides, though; I'm going to remain neutron.

Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Message #35 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Michelle Steiner

Previously, Michelle Steiner wrote:

That was electrifying, but you're grounded.

The following two go back when I was in high school some fifty years ago:

THE SEX LIFE OF AN ELECTRON (with unhappy ending)

One night when his charge was at full capacity, Micro Farad decided to get a cute little coil to discharge him. He picked up Millie Amp and took her for a ride on his megacycle. They rode across the wheat stone bridge, around the sine wave, and into the magnetic field next to the flowing current.

Micro Farad, attracted by Millie's characteristic curve, soon had her field fully excited. He laid her on the ground potential, raised her frequency, lowered her resistance, and pulled out his high voltage probe. He inserted it in parallel and began to short circuit her shunt. Fully excited, Millie cried out, "ohm, ohm, give me mho". With his tube at maximum output and her coil vibrating from the current flow, her shunt soon reached maximum heat. The excessive current had shorted her shunt, and Micro's capacity was rapidly discharged, and every electron was drained off. They fluxed all night, tried various connections and hookings until his bar magnet had lost all of its strength, and he could no longer generate enough voltage to sustain his collapsing field. With his battery fully discharged, Micro was unable to excite his tickler, so they ended up reversing polarity and blowing each other's fuses.

THE SEX LIFE OF AN ELECTRON ( with happy ending)

One night when his charge was pretty high, Micro Farad went to see if he could find a cute little coil to let him discharge.

He picked up Milli Amp, and took her for a ride on his Megacycle. They rode accross the wheatstone bridge, along the sine wave and stopped at a magnetic field flowing with current.

Micro Farad soon had her resistance at a minimum level. They laid against ground level. Micro Farad then inserted his probe in Milli Amps socket. Mho, Mho, give me Mho, she said.

They fluxed all night, trying out various connections.

Afterwards Milli Amp tried self-induction and damaged her probe. After this, they went home and oscillated happily ever after.

Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Message #36 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Matt Broughton

Previously, Bill Rider wrote:

Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Matthew T. Russotto wrote:

You should speak to them directly about that.

I can't, they're AC!

Ohm my, I'll tell you watt, it's really hard to keep current in this thread. I may have to revolt.

There seems to be a chip on your shoulder. Wire you complaining? What do you have to gain? Don't you have the capacitance to follow it? I think you have the potential to do better. Your resistance makes it hard for the group to conduct this conversation. I hope this constructive criticism rectifies the situation by coaxing you to transform your attitude. IC, do you see? No mho static, ok?

I've resisted long enough. Isn't there a better outlet for your biased statements?

Matt Broughton
Only relatives are absolute.

Message #37 - Posted 2008/02/23 - Michelle Steiner

Previously, Matt Broughton wrote:

You should speak to them directly about that.

I can't, they're AC!

Ohm my, I'll tell you watt, it's really hard to keep current in this thread. I may have to revolt.

There seems to be a chip on your shoulder. Wire you complaining? What do you have to gain? Don't you have the capacitance to follow it? I think you have the potential to do better. Your resistance makes it hard for the group to conduct this conversation. I hope this constructive criticism rectifies the situation by coaxing you to transform your attitude. IC, do you see? No mho static, ok?

I've resisted long enough. Isn't there a better outlet for your biased statements?

This is getting too long, I don't have the capacity to handle it all; I'm re-coiling from it. It's time to put it through the condenser, and short circuit this discussion. At least that's what my friend Millie Farad told me.

Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Message #38 - Posted 2008/02/24 - Matt Broughton

Previously, Michelle Steiner wrote:

Previously, Matt Broughton wrote:

This is getting too long, I don't have the capacity to handle it all; I'm re-coiling from it. It's time to put it through the condenser, and short circuit this discussion. At least that's what my friend Millie Farad told me.

Didn't she have a brother pico? I think they were both charged with making their mother bored.

Matt Broughton
Only relatives are absolute.

Message #39 - Posted 2008/02/24 - Michelle Steiner

Previously, Matt Broughton wrote:

This is getting too long, I don't have the capacity to handle it all; I'm re-coiling from it. It's time to put it through the condenser, and short circuit this discussion. At least that's what my friend Millie Farad told me.

Didn't she have a brother pico? I think they were both charged with making their mother bored.

They were installed in the hall of fame for that, by the way; I saw their induction ceremony. I wanted to attend in person, but I couldn't afford it; they were overcharging, and I was repelled.

Support the troops: Bring them home ASAP.

Need Help? Have a Question?

Looking for more help, comments, and answers?

Ask your questions on Ask Different. Ask Different is a community of Apple users ready to help.