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Shocks from powerbook

Message #1 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Chris Ridd

I'm getting what feels like small electric shocks from the corners of my Tibook. I don't remember this happening before. Coincidentally (?) more paint is coming away from the light silver edge. (Even worse, a flake's just come away from the trackpad button - highly visible!!)

What to do? I bet Applecare doesn't cover "wear and tear", which might describe the paint coming away. But shocks?

Cheers,

Chris

Message #2 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Woody

Chris Ridd wrote:

I'm getting what feels like small electric shocks from the corners of my Tibook. I don't remember this happening before. Coincidentally (?) more paint is coming away from the light silver edge. (Even worse, a flake's just come away from the trackpad button - highly visible!!)

My old ti400 used to do that when it was on power. I seem to remember people saying it wasn't unusual.
However, it never lost any paint (and still hasn't).
My newer powerbook (800) in the last few months has lost a lot of paint and gone crinkly on the edge.

Woody

www.alienrat.com

Message #3 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Phil Taylor

Previously, Chris Ridd wrote:

I'm getting what feels like small electric shocks from the corners of my Tibook. I don't remember this happening before. Coincidentally (?) more paint is coming away from the light silver edge. (Even worse, a flake's just come away from the trackpad button - highly visible!!)

What to do? I bet Applecare doesn't cover "wear and tear", which might describe the paint coming away. But shocks?

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember). This would be enough to give a painful shock if it were coming from a low impedance. However, you can only actually feel it if you touch a sharp edge so that the current flows through a tiny area of skin. It's probably the result of capacitative coupling across the power supply, and it's the price we pay for using equipment which is not earthed. It's not dangerous, and if it bothers you you can stop it by earthing the TiBook, e.g. by plugging a lead into the audio out and connecting it to your HiFi (presuming that that is earthed, of course).

Phil Taylor

Message #4 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Flavio Matani

Woody wrote:

Chris Ridd wrote:

I'm getting what feels like small electric shocks from the corners of my Tibook. I don't remember this happening before. Coincidentally (?) more paint is coming away from the light silver edge. (Even worse, a flake's just come away from the trackpad button - highly visible!!)

My old ti400 used to do that when it was on power. I seem to remember people saying it wasn't unusual.
However, it never lost any paint (and still hasn't).
My newer powerbook (800) in the last few months has lost a lot of paint and gone crinkly on the edge.

My 12" pboko used to do it a lot but haven't had a shock from it for ages now. Not sure whether it's stopped, I've got used to it or in good pavlovian manner I've 'learnt' not to touch wherever it triggers the shock....

I used to have a 1400 and it never did that

flavio matani
guitar tuition
homepage.mac.com/flavio_matani/guitar/ www.livejournal.com/users/flavius_m/

Message #5 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Peter Ceresole

Chris Ridd wrote:

I'm getting what feels like small electric shocks from the corners of my Tibook. I don't remember this happening before.

I'm getting the same from my 667 TiBook. This, obviously, only when it's on mains power. I get a 'fizz' of mains when I rub my fingers or the palms of my hands across the flat metal surface either side of the trackpad. It's been apparent before, but seems to have got worse recently. I suspect that this may be because I have moved stuff around on my desk. It seems to make a little difference if I move cables about, but basically the PSU isn't earthed- I presume it's isolated, so the whole Mac floats somewhere above earth voltage, and that's what I'm feeling.

Adrian?

You know about these things...

Peter

Message #6 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Peter Ceresole

Flavio Matani wrote:

I used to have a 1400 and it never did that

Plastic surfaces don't.

Peter

Message #7 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Peter Ceresole

Phil Taylor wrote:

It's probably the result of
capacitative coupling across the power supply, and it's the price we pay for using equipment which is not earthed. It's not dangerous, and if it bothers you you can stop it by earthing the TiBook, e.g. by plugging a lead into the audio out and connecting it to your HiFi (presuming that that is earthed, of course).

The trouble is that the ghetto blaster I use as a speaker set (cheap, works well) isn't earthed either. I am looking into some decent bodge to achieve this.

Peter

Message #8 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Flavio Matani

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Flavio Matani wrote:

I used to have a 1400 and it never did that

Plastic surfaces don't.

indeed, but Woody just said his did

flavio matani
guitar tuition
homepage.mac.com/flavio_matani/guitar/ www.livejournal.com/users/flavius_m/

Message #9 - Posted 2004/09/20 - Flavio Matani

Flavio Matani wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Flavio Matani wrote:

I used to have a 1400 and it never did that

Plastic surfaces don't.

indeed, but Woody just said his did

Correction, he didn't, I misread

(don't post late at night when you're in anticipation of getting up very early....)

flavio matani
guitar tuition
homepage.mac.com/flavio_matani/guitar/ www.livejournal.com/users/flavius_m/

Message #10 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Peter Ceresole

Phil Taylor wrote:

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember).

I just checked with an autorange electronic voltmeter.

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage, so the Mac is floating precisely half way up which is what you'd expect from an isolated PSU...

The search is now on to find *some* piece of earthed kit I could plug into it, or maybe the ultimate bodge of a wire to a central heating pipe going to the earth on the phono plugs of the ghetto blaster I'm using for speakers, connected to the TiBook. Saves messing with the 'Book. I think that's the one...

Yeah. That did it... Passive TiBook, no fizz.

Good thread- got me off my arse and into the parts bin.

Peter

Message #11 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Woody

Flavio Matani wrote:

Flavio Matani wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Flavio Matani wrote:

I used to have a 1400 and it never did that

Plastic surfaces don't.

indeed, but Woody just said his did

Correction, he didn't, I misread

(don't post late at night when you're in anticipation of getting up very early....)

)

I never had a 1400 - too skint back then. All of my first macs were free until the first one I bought, the G4-400.
I had a 3400 but not many shocks from that, didn't even catch on fire. The titanium powerbook hurts if you touch the inverter when it is on though. A lot.

Woody

www.alienrat.com

Message #12 - Posted 2004/09/21 - D.M. Procida

Woody wrote:

The titanium powerbook hurts if you touch the inverter when it is on though. A lot.

Not as much as the high-voltage circuit of an SE.

Daniele

Apple Juice Ltd
Chapter Arts Centre
Market Road www.apple-juice.co.uk Cardiff CF5 1QE 029 2019 0140

Message #13 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Chris Ridd

On 20/9/04 10:21 pm, in article 1gkfnal.1o89a42jnbccgN%usenet@alienrat.co.uk, Woody wrote:

Chris Ridd wrote:

I'm getting what feels like small electric shocks from the corners of my Tibook. I don't remember this happening before. Coincidentally (?) more paint is coming away from the light silver edge. (Even worse, a flake's just come away from the trackpad button - highly visible!!)

My old ti400 used to do that when it was on power. I seem to remember people saying it wasn't unusual.

It does sound like it is "usual". Hm.

However, it never lost any paint (and still hasn't). My newer powerbook (800) in the last few months has lost a lot of paint and gone crinkly on the edge.

The edges on mine have gone quite crinkly, prior to the paint flaking off. I'm using some TiPaint to touch up the worst of it.

Cheers,

Chris

Message #14 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Jim McGowan

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember).

I just checked with an autorange electronic voltmeter.

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage, so the Mac is floating precisely half way up which is what you'd expect from an isolated PSU...

I had the same prob at work with isolated (video) monitors, kept getting 100v-ish zaps from the 'sheild' part of the BNC & RCA Connectors. Settled down obviously when connected to earthed stuff, but the zaps get quite annoying quite quickly...

The search is now on to find *some* piece of earthed kit I could plug into it, or maybe the ultimate bodge of a wire to a central heating pipe going to the earth on the phono plugs of the ghetto blaster I'm using for speakers, connected to the TiBook. Saves messing with the 'Book. I think that's the one...

Or just keep a set of marogold gloves and wellies standing by thee pBook? :-)

Jim

jim underscore mcgowan at mac dot com

Message #15 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Woody

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember).

I just checked with an autorange electronic voltmeter.

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage,

They have 232V AC in Ceresole world?

Its probably higher than that but the act of measuring it brings it down

Woody
Alienrat Design Ltd
www.alienrat.com

Message #16 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Peter Ceresole

Woody wrote:

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage,

They have 232V AC in Ceresole world?

Between 230V and 240V, yeah. Not unexpected, as that's what the supply company claim. It used to be 240V in the days of Empire, Anthony Eden and brown sauce. A couple of years ago they announced it was coming down to the European norm of 230V. Ther was a mini-fuss in the jingo newspapers, but actually nobody noticed.

Its probably higher than that but the act of measuring it brings it down

These electronic meters are very high impedance, so I'd expect the effect to be small even in this case.

Peter

Message #17 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Richard P. Grant

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Between 230V and 240V, yeah. Not unexpected, as that's what the supply company claim. It used to be 240V in the days of Empire, Anthony Eden and brown sauce. A couple of years ago they announced it was coming down to the European norm of 230V. Ther was a mini-fuss in the jingo newspapers, but actually nobody noticed.

I think that what actually happened was that the supply in .uk went from (specified) 240 +/- 10 V to 230 +15/-10 V to bring us into line with Europe, but without actually changing the supply voltage.

On the continent they went from 220 +/- 10 V to 230 +10/-15 V.

Nothing changed, just the specification.

Richard P. Grant 0x5F9559B1 MRC Lab of Mol Biol rpg 'at' mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk http://www.rg-d.com/BioLOG/ -- Country music - the music of pain --

Message #18 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Woody

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Woody wrote:

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage,

They have 232V AC in Ceresole world?

Between 230V and 240V, yeah. Not unexpected, as that's what the supply company claim. It used to be 240V in the days of Empire, Anthony Eden and brown sauce. A couple of years ago they announced it was coming down to the European norm of 230V. Ther was a mini-fuss in the jingo newspapers, but actually nobody noticed.

Never heard about that. Maybe it was a london thing (not enough power for all of you power wasting londoners leaving your lights on everywhere, blotting out the sky), we have 243V leaking out of our sockets here (except the UPS which is 240 exactly)

Its probably higher than that but the act of measuring it brings it down

These electronic meters are very high impedance, so I'd expect the effect to be small even in this case.

But in the absence of any other path to ground, it is the shortest path and as it is just floating it can take it down a bit.

Woody
Alienrat Design Ltd
www.alienrat.com

Message #19 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Chris Ridd

On 21/9/04 2:35 pm, in article cipama$q90$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk, Richard P. Grant wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Between 230V and 240V, yeah. Not unexpected, as that's what the supply company claim. It used to be 240V in the days of Empire, Anthony Eden and brown sauce. A couple of years ago they announced it was coming down to the European norm of 230V. Ther was a mini-fuss in the jingo newspapers, but actually nobody noticed.

I think that what actually happened was that the supply in .uk went from (specified) 240 +/- 10 V to 230 +15/-10 V to bring us into line with Europe, but without actually changing the supply voltage.

On the continent they went from 220 +/- 10 V to 230 +10/-15 V.

That sounds very familiar.

Nothing changed, just the specification.

Ah, harmonization...

Cheers,

Chris

Message #20 - Posted 2004/09/21 - J. J. Lodder

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember).

I just checked with an autorange electronic voltmeter.

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage, so the Mac is floating precisely half way up which is what you'd expect from an isolated PSU...

Must be coincidence.
Half the mains voltage is what you get on PC-s
with metal cases connected to a mains filter,
when the ground lead is missing.

The Ti-book power supply is floating completely,
so it can be floating anywhere.

But I 've heard similar tales before.
Perhaps the isolation in those powersupplies
is deteriorating with age?

Jan

Message #21 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Jon B

J. J. Lodder wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember).

I just checked with an autorange electronic voltmeter.

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage, so the Mac is floating precisely half way up which is what you'd expect from an isolated PSU...

Must be coincidence.
Half the mains voltage is what you get on PC-s
with metal cases connected to a mains filter,
when the ground lead is missing.

The Ti-book power supply is floating completely,
so it can be floating anywhere.

But I 've heard similar tales before.
Perhaps the isolation in those powersupplies
is deteriorating with age?

Might be why later power supplier are earthed, earlier ones aren't --
Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Message #22 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Woody

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember).

I just checked with an autorange electronic voltmeter.

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage, so the Mac is floating precisely half way up which is what you'd expect from an isolated PSU...

I just checked mine and on the hinge I have 116V as well, which seems coincidental. However, I have never had a shock from this one. On the lid it is 58v

Woody
Alienrat Design Ltd
www.alienrat.com

Message #23 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Chris Ridd

On 21/9/04 3:29 pm, in article 1gkgym8.ul3s8m1l3pt80N%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

Might be why later power supplier are earthed, earlier ones aren't

None of the power supplies for the TiBook are earthed, as far as I know. OK, I've only got a sample size of two - the only difference between the original one and the replacement one I got in August is that the replacement one has a metal stud in the lozenge, but that only slides into a plastic slot on the 3-pronged adaptor thing.

Oh, and the plug going into the TiBook is white whereas before it was metal.

Cheers,

Chris

Message #24 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Jon B

Chris Ridd wrote:

On 21/9/04 3:29 pm, in article 1gkgym8.ul3s8m1l3pt80N%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

Might be why later power supplier are earthed, earlier ones aren't

None of the power supplies for the TiBook are earthed, as far as I know. OK, I've only got a sample size of two - the only difference between the original one and the replacement one I got in August is that the replacement one has a metal stud in the lozenge, but that only slides into a plastic slot on the 3-pronged adaptor thing.

Oh, and the plug going into the TiBook is white whereas before it was metal.

Check the long lead rather than the platic plug, my plastic plugs sound like yours but the long lead has metal pins clips out of sight that clip on to the pin, I don't know if they are earthed and don't have a ciruit tester to hand to test. I'm sure we did an earth test on it during the PAT tests last time though.

Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Message #25 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Chris Ridd

On 21/9/04 4:21 pm, in article 1gkh184.k1a3zm1e85ekxN%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

Check the long lead rather than the platic plug, my plastic plugs sound like yours but the long lead has metal pins clips out of sight that clip on to the pin, I don't know if they are earthed and don't have a ciruit tester to hand to test. I'm sure we did an earth test on it during the PAT tests last time though.

Since there's no conducting connection between the metal stud and the adapter, I can't see what the rest of the cabling's got to do with it?

We're both talking about the same squarish PSU with rounded corners? A bit like the iPod one but bigger?

Cheers,

Chris

Message #26 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Peter Ceresole

Jon B wrote:

But I 've heard similar tales before. Perhaps the isolation in those powersupplies
is deteriorating with age?

Might be why later power supplier are earthed, earlier ones aren't

That sounds quite likely. Are the later ones really earthed? Three wires and all? Presumably this applies to the iBook PSUs as well, even though being plastic they can't give you a buzz?

The mains buzz off the TiBoko isn't dangerous or horrid, but it'd be nicer not to feel it; as a result of my bodge it's quite unlive, and much more pleasant to use on charge...

Peter

Message #27 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Jon B

Chris Ridd wrote:

On 21/9/04 4:21 pm, in article 1gkh184.k1a3zm1e85ekxN%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

Check the long lead rather than the platic plug, my plastic plugs sound like yours but the long lead has metal pins clips out of sight that clip on to the pin, I don't know if they are earthed and don't have a ciruit tester to hand to test. I'm sure we did an earth test on it during the PAT tests last time though.

Since there's no conducting connection between the metal stud and the adapter, I can't see what the rest of the cabling's got to do with it?

We're both talking about the same squarish PSU with rounded corners? A bit like the iPod one but bigger?

We are but there is about 3 revisions OTOH there may be others, early 45w plastic pin, bog standard audio lead connector, 65w metal pin and fancy corner connecting long lead, 45w metal pin fancy corner connecting long lead, the one on my desk I'm refering to is the latter most current adapter [1]

[1] Supplied with G4 iBooks

Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Message #28 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Chris Ridd

On 21/9/04 5:20 pm, in article 1gkh1oc.1764kxkc7ja3aN%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

We are but there is about 3 revisions OTOH there may be others, early 45w plastic pin, bog standard audio lead connector, 65w metal pin and fancy corner connecting long lead, 45w metal pin fancy corner connecting long lead, the one on my desk I'm refering to is the latter most current adapter [1]

By metal pin are you referring to the UK plug's earth pin?

My current (ie replacement) PSU is a 45W fancy corner connecting one. I can either plug a straight audio lead into it (2 pins), or a UK plug, which slides over a metal stud (but there's no metal contact on the plug side). I ought to take a photo of it!

[1] Supplied with G4 iBooks

Cheers,

Chris

Message #29 - Posted 2004/09/21 - zoara

Phil Taylor wrote:

[snipped everything]

What does your x-face mean, Phil? It's intriguing...

-z-

The iBook saga continues... last updated Tue 21/9/04 (day 57) Couriers can't find my house (5 minutes walk from town centre) even with a map! Will try again Weds - driver will call me from van if lost. Shouted at Apple - didn't change anything but made me feel better...

Message #30 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Jon B

Chris Ridd wrote:

On 21/9/04 5:20 pm, in article 1gkh1oc.1764kxkc7ja3aN%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

We are but there is about 3 revisions OTOH there may be others, early 45w plastic pin, bog standard audio lead connector, 65w metal pin and fancy corner connecting long lead, 45w metal pin fancy corner connecting long lead, the one on my desk I'm refering to is the latter most current adapter [1]

By metal pin are you referring to the UK plug's earth pin?

My current (ie replacement) PSU is a 45W fancy corner connecting one. I can either plug a straight audio lead into it (2 pins), or a UK plug, which slides over a metal stud (but there's no metal contact on the plug side). I ought to take a photo of it!

Have a look up the inside of the grooves, mines got 2 metal clips that slide over the pin out of sight.

Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Message #31 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Chris Ridd

On 21/9/04 8:00 pm, in article 1gkh8x2.7j4w9ti9x9fzN%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

Have a look up the inside of the grooves, mines got 2 metal clips that slide over the pin out of sight.

Not on mine! The grooves are completely plastic.

I wonder if I am using the UK adaptor from my first PSU. My new PSU has a model number of A1036 - the same as yours?

Cheers,

Chris

Message #32 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Adrian Tuddenham

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Chris Ridd wrote:

I'm getting what feels like small electric shocks from the corners of my Tibook. I don't remember this happening before.

I'm getting the same from my 667 TiBook. This, obviously, only when it's on mains power. I get a 'fizz' of mains when I rub my fingers or the palms of my hands across the flat metal surface either side of the trackpad. It's been apparent before, but seems to have got worse recently. I suspect that this may be because I have moved stuff around on my desk. It seems to make a little difference if I move cables about, but basically the PSU isn't earthed- I presume it's isolated, so the whole Mac floats somewhere above earth voltage, and that's what I'm feeling.

Adrian?

You know about these things...

I haven't seen the particular model, but a lot of modern kit has suppressor capacitors connected from each wire of the mains to 'earth' (the chassis & casing). The capacitors are a high impedance at mains frequency but a low impedance to the higher frequencies of interference (which they are meant to short to earth).

The capacitors need to be low enough impedance to suppress interference but that means they are bound to let a bit of current through from the mains. If the chassis isn't actually connected to real earth, it will take up a voltage about halfway between the two mains wires, but only if there is no current being drawn away. As soon as you touch it, a proportion of the current will flow through you and the voltage will drop (a meter will also load it down a bit).

The allowable current is well below the limit for giving you a dangerous shock, but it is still sufficient to feel unpleasant (especially if you have ever received a full-blown shock and it triggers anxiety about possible things to come).

Anything with exposed metalwork connected to the half-way point of the capacitor ought really to have that point earthed. Anything with no earth lead ought to have any exposed metalwork completely insulated by two independent layers of insulation (double-insulation rules). If Apple have broken those rules, I would have expected their imports to have been banned (I certainly would fail them on their first PAT test).

No doubt there is some loophole which has allowed them to circumvent these basic safety rules which manufacturers in this country would not dare to challenge.

~ Adrian Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply) www.poppyrecords.co.uk

Message #33 - Posted 2004/09/21 - J. J. Lodder

wRichard P. Grant wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Between 230V and 240V, yeah. Not unexpected, as that's what the supply company claim. It used to be 240V in the days of Empire, Anthony Eden and brown sauce. A couple of years ago they announced it was coming down to the European norm of 230V. Ther was a mini-fuss in the jingo newspapers, but actually nobody noticed.

I think that what actually happened was that the supply in .uk went from (specified) 240 +/- 10 V to 230 +15/-10 V to bring us into line with Europe, but without actually changing the supply voltage.

On the continent they went from 220 +/- 10 V to 230 +10/-15 V.

Nothing changed, just the specification.

Not true.
There really was a voltage increase,
where it used to be 220 V,

Jan

Message #34 - Posted 2004/09/21 - J. J. Lodder

Jon B wrote:

J. J. Lodder wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

Checking the voltage between my TiBook and earth I found a large voltage (about 60 volts if I remember).

I just checked with an autorange electronic voltmeter.

Between the TiBook and the mains earth is 116V AC. Woohoo! But that figures; exactly half mains voltage, so the Mac is floating precisely half way up which is what you'd expect from an isolated PSU...

Must be coincidence.
Half the mains voltage is what you get on PC-s
with metal cases connected to a mains filter,
when the ground lead is missing.

The Ti-book power supply is floating completely,
so it can be floating anywhere.

But I 've heard similar tales before.
Perhaps the isolation in those powersupplies
is deteriorating with age?

Might be why later power supplier are earthed, earlier ones aren't

Nope.
None of the Ti-books, or G3 PoBo-s, or iBooks are earthed. There -seems- to be e three pin plug,
but the third is not connected,

Jan

Message #35 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Phil Taylor

Previously, zoara wrote:

Phil Taylor wrote:

[snipped everything]

What does your x-face mean, Phil? It's intriguing...

-z-

<http://www.barfly.dial.pipex.com>

Phil Taylor

Message #36 - Posted 2004/09/21 - Peter Ceresole

Phil Taylor wrote:

<http://www.barfly.dial.pipex.com>

Hmmmm. Nice.

Peter

Message #37 - Posted 2004/09/21 - zoara

Chris Ridd wrote:

On 21/9/04 2:35 pm, in article cipama$q90$1@pegasus.csx.cam.ac.uk, Richard P. Grant wrote:

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Between 230V and 240V, yeah. Not unexpected, as that's what the supply company claim. It used to be 240V in the days of Empire, Anthony Eden and brown sauce. A couple of years ago they announced it was coming down to the European norm of 230V. Ther was a mini-fuss in the jingo newspapers, but actually nobody noticed.

I think that what actually happened was that the supply in .uk went from (specified) 240 +/- 10 V to 230 +15/-10 V to bring us into line with Europe, but without actually changing the supply voltage.

On the continent they went from 220 +/- 10 V to 230 +10/-15 V.

That sounds very familiar.

Almost this exact same discussion happened here about 18 months ago.

Same people, too, I think ;)

-z-

The iBook saga continues... last updated Tue 21/9/04 (day 57) Couriers can't find my house (5 minutes walk from town centre) even with a map! Will try again Weds - driver will call me from van if lost. Shouted at Apple - didn't change anything but made me feel better...

Message #38 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Chris Ridd

On 21/9/04 11:46 pm, in article 1gkhlx5.1xt2btv438lreN%me3@privacy.net, zoara wrote:

Chris Ridd wrote:

That sounds very familiar.

Almost this exact same discussion happened here about 18 months ago.

Same people, too, I think ;)

Really? It rang a bell from real life..

Cheers,

Chris

Message #39 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Richard P. Grant

zoara wrote:

On the continent they went from 220 +/- 10 V to 230 +10/-15 V.

That sounds very familiar.

Almost this exact same discussion happened here about 18 months ago.

Same people, too, I think ;)

Not quite. This is where I read it.

Richard P. Grant 0x5F9559B1 MRC Lab of Mol Biol rpg 'at' mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk http://www.rg-d.com/BioLOG/

perl -le '$_="6110>374086;2064208213:90<307;55";tr[0->][ LEOR!AUBGNSTY];print'

Message #40 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Jon B

Chris Ridd wrote:

On 21/9/04 8:00 pm, in article 1gkh8x2.7j4w9ti9x9fzN%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

Have a look up the inside of the grooves, mines got 2 metal clips that slide over the pin out of sight.

Not on mine! The grooves are completely plastic.

I wonder if I am using the UK adaptor from my first PSU. My new PSU has a model number of A1036 - the same as yours?

Yep A1036 here too, the little plastic plug as you say on mine is completely plastic, but the 1m lead jobbie has these metal clips up in the sides. I've just circuit tested it too, those clips do connect to the earth pin on the plug, and if you attach the lead then run a test from the centre section of the iBook pin to earth you get a circuit, so mine is definately earthed.

Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Message #41 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Jon B

But I 've heard similar tales before. Perhaps the isolation in those powersupplies
is deteriorating with age?

Might be why later power supplier are earthed, earlier ones aren't

Nope.
None of the Ti-books, or G3 PoBo-s, or iBooks are earthed. There -seems- to be e three pin plug,
but the third is not connected,

Sorry see my other post, I've just circuit tested one and mine is. --
Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Message #42 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Peter Ceresole

Jon B wrote:

I've just circuit tested it too, those clips do connect to the earth pin on the plug, and if you attach the lead then run a test from the centre section of the iBook pin to earth you get a circuit, so mine is definately earthed.

That's excellent. Now I've grounded my TiBook by other means, I really do prefer it. I presume in that case that the new PSU earths MetalBooks (which need it) as well as iBooks (which don't).

How much do Apple PSUs cost?

Peter

Message #43 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Jon B

Peter Ceresole wrote:

Jon B wrote:

I've just circuit tested it too, those clips do connect to the earth pin on the plug, and if you attach the lead then run a test from the centre section of the iBook pin to earth you get a circuit, so mine is definately earthed.

That's excellent. Now I've grounded my TiBook by other means, I really do prefer it. I presume in that case that the new PSU earths MetalBooks (which need it) as well as iBooks (which don't).

How much do Apple PSUs cost?

£65 I'm afraid. I've just done some more testing too, it does actually earth the iBook too, touch on the USB ports/under the keyboard and I get a connection back to the earth pin. Also just tested this on an older G3 iBook that came with a unearthed yo-yo and that also earths with it. --
Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

Message #44 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Chris Ridd

On 22/9/04 9:50 am, in article 1gkidly.lj9w0n5whnhbN%jon.bradburyusenetspam@btinternet.com, Jon B wrote:

Chris Ridd wrote:

I wonder if I am using the UK adaptor from my first PSU. My new PSU has a model number of A1036 - the same as yours?

Yep A1036 here too, the little plastic plug as you say on mine is completely plastic, but the 1m lead jobbie has these metal clips up in the sides. I've just circuit tested it too, those clips do connect to the earth pin on the plug, and if you attach the lead then run a test from the centre section of the iBook pin to earth you get a circuit, so mine is definately earthed.

I shall look at that cable a bit later on. I wonder why the little plastic plug doesn't extend the earth connection?

Cheers,

Chris

Message #45 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Chris Ridd

On 22/9/04 10:45 am, in article 1gkig39.j16hojv4bos6N%peter@cara.demon.co.uk, Peter Ceresole wrote:

Jon B wrote:

I've just circuit tested it too, those clips do connect to the earth pin on the plug, and if you attach the lead then run a test from the centre section of the iBook pin to earth you get a circuit, so mine is definately earthed.

That's excellent. Now I've grounded my TiBook by other means, I really do prefer it. I presume in that case that the new PSU earths MetalBooks (which need it) as well as iBooks (which don't).

How much do Apple PSUs cost?

An astonishing £65 from the Apple Store - that's £1/watt :-)

Same price from applemacparts.com too.

Cheers,

Chris

Message #46 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Peter Ceresole

Jon B wrote:

How much do Apple PSUs cost?

£65 I'm afraid.

Oops.

I'll live with my temporary solution for now. But it'd be nice to have it passified in Geneva too, which will require a modded bodge. Easy enough; most of the work will be ensuring it can't turn nasty.

A Birmingham Earth...

Peter

Message #47 - Posted 2004/09/22 - zoara

Richard P. Grant wrote:

zoara wrote:

On the continent they went from 220 +/- 10 V to 230 +10/-15 V.

That sounds very familiar.

Almost this exact same discussion happened here about 18 months ago.

Same people, too, I think ;)

Not quite. This is where I read it.

OK. Well, it was inner cabal members, anyway.

-z-

The iBook saga continues... last updated Tue 21/9/04 (day 57) Couriers can't find my house (5 minutes walk from town centre) even with a map! Will try again Weds - driver will call me from van if lost. Shouted at Apple - didn't change anything but made me feel better...

Message #48 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Richard P. Grant

zoara wrote:

Richard P. Grant wrote:

zoara wrote:

On the continent they went from 220 +/- 10 V to 230 +10/-15 V.

That sounds very familiar.

Almost this exact same discussion happened here about 18 months ago.

Same people, too, I think ;)

Not quite. This is where I read it.

OK. Well, it was inner cabal members, anyway.

Quite.

And just to verify the workings of the 'inner cabal':

http://users.metro2000.net/~purwinc/seec2_2.htm

Richard P. Grant 0x5F9559B1 MRC Lab of Mol Biol rpg 'at' mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk http://www.rg-d.com/BioLOG/ -- 'Ex - cellent!' --

Message #49 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Peter Lee

Woody wrote:

Never heard about that. Maybe it was a london thing (not enough power for all of you power wasting londoners leaving your lights on everywhere, blotting out the sky), we have 243V leaking out of our sockets here (except the UPS which is 240 exactly)

I suspect Peter's talking about Switzerland, n'est pas?

Peter (a different one)

This address is never read; use
peterattheleesdotukdotnet

Message #50 - Posted 2004/09/22 - Peter Lee

Chris Ridd wrote:

By metal pin are you referring to the UK plug's earth pin?

My current (ie replacement) PSU is a 45W fancy corner connecting one. I can either plug a straight audio lead into it (2 pins), or a UK plug, which slides over a metal stud (but there's no metal contact on the plug side). I ought to take a photo of it!

Look into the groove that the metal stud slides into - are there little metal rails in the side? I'll bet there are.
Peter

This address is never read; use
peterattheleesdotukdotnet

Message #51 - Posted 2004/09/23 - Peter Ceresole

Peter Lee wrote:

I suspect Peter's talking about Switzerland, n'est pas?

Nope, I'm in London most of the time.

Peter

Message #52 - Posted 2004/09/23 - Chris Ridd

On 22/9/04 10:56 pm, in article 1gkj2to.1ak61njekpjb2N%peterlee@softhome.net, Peter Lee wrote:

Chris Ridd wrote:

By metal pin are you referring to the UK plug's earth pin?

My current (ie replacement) PSU is a 45W fancy corner connecting one. I can either plug a straight audio lead into it (2 pins), or a UK plug, which slides over a metal stud (but there's no metal contact on the plug side). I ought to take a photo of it!

Look into the groove that the metal stud slides into - are there little metal rails in the side? I'll bet there are.

Nope, definitely not. I've also just checked the audio-style long cable and that definitely doesn't have any earthing strip on the PSU end.

I've clearly got a unique set of bits.

Cheers,

Chris

Message #53 - Posted 2004/09/23 - zoara

Chris Ridd wrote:

I've clearly got a unique set of bits.

Fna... oh, never mind. That was *too* easy.

-z-

The iBook saga continues... last updated Tue 21/9/04 (day 57) Couriers can't find my house (5 minutes walk from town centre) even with a map! Will try again Weds - driver will call me from van if lost. Shouted at Apple - didn't change anything but made me feel better...

Message #54 - Posted 2004/09/23 - Ian Piper

I have had quite a saga in sending back my iBook (logic board problem) - not from Apple but from UPS. Apple accepted the need for the return straight away, and told me UPS would be here in two working days. In fact it took seven separate attempts over ten days before they turned up at a time they had said they would and picked up my return box. I just hope things are a bit smoother when they bring it back. I told Apple what I thought of UPS's service but I doubt if they are going to change on my account.

On 23/9/04 12:16 pm, in article 1gkkdt1.11bue7q12k8vj5N%me3@privacy.net, zoara wrote:

--
The iBook saga continues... last updated Tue 21/9/04 (day 57) Couriers can't find my house (5 minutes walk from town centre) even with a map! Will try again Weds - driver will call me from van if lost. Shouted at Apple - didn't change anything but made me feel better...

Message #55 - Posted 2004/09/23 - Jon B

Chris Ridd wrote:

On 22/9/04 10:56 pm, in article 1gkj2to.1ak61njekpjb2N%peterlee@softhome.net, Peter Lee wrote:

Chris Ridd wrote:

By metal pin are you referring to the UK plug's earth pin?

My current (ie replacement) PSU is a 45W fancy corner connecting one. I can either plug a straight audio lead into it (2 pins), or a UK plug, which slides over a metal stud (but there's no metal contact on the plug side). I ought to take a photo of it!

Look into the groove that the metal stud slides into - are there little metal rails in the side? I'll bet there are.

Nope, definitely not. I've also just checked the audio-style long cable and that definitely doesn't have any earthing strip on the PSU end.

I've clearly got a unique set of bits.

That sounds like an earlier one, the audio style leads don't come with an earth, but later ones have a square block on the end with those metal clips inside

Jon B
mail account above is dead please reply to usenet at jonbradbury dot com

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