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Sleep vs. Shut Down: which?

Message #1 - Posted 2001/05/21 - Brian Barjenbruch

I'm curious. Which is it generally a better thing to do, when I'm not using my Mac for extended periods of time (such as when I'm asleep or at work): Shut it down, or put it to sleep? If I expect to go back to the Mac within, say, an hour, I just make it sleep, but usually if I'm away for awhile, I shut it down. But now I hear about people who NEVER shut their Macs down, and I wonder why they do this. Should I do it too?

Are there any ways that my Mac (an iMac DV SE, running OSX 10.0.3) could spontaneously wake itself up from sleep when I'm not around? Would something like a power surge, or cable modem activity, do this? Are power surges more harmful to a Mac when it's asleep or when it's shut down?

"If you find yourself alone, riding through green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled, for you are in Elysium, and are already dead." - Maximus Decimus Meridius, 'Gladiator'

Message #2 - Posted 2001/05/21 - Charles Martin

Previously, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

I'm curious. Which is it generally a better thing to do, when I'm not using my Mac for extended periods of time (such as when I'm asleep or at work): Shut it down, or put it to sleep? If I expect to go back to the Mac within, say, an hour, I just make it sleep, but usually if I'm away for awhile, I shut it down. But now I hear about people who NEVER shut their Macs down, and I wonder why they do this. Should I do it too?

This is the Eternal Question in Mac circles, and before everyone jumps in with their opinion the truth of the matter is that there is NO one right answer.

For me PERSONALLY, Sleep makes sense if you're going to be away for short periods of time (an hour or two), but I usually Shut Down at the end of the day. If nothing else, this resets the system and clears out any memory leaks.

Under OS X, I could see myself just going to Sleep all the time.

Another factor to consider: processors and power supplies and other components are rated by mean time before failure, an "average" number of hours they can be expected to operate before they die a heat death.

If your machine is sleeping, it's still adding up those hours. This is all hypothetical mind you.

Are there any ways that my Mac (an iMac DV SE, running OSX 10.0.3) could spontaneously wake itself up from sleep when I'm not around?

Yes. Fax software set to auto-answer could wake up a sleeping machine, so could any sort of network activity (even a stray signal from one's cable modem).

Would something like a power surge, or cable modem activity, do this?

Yes.

Are power surges more harmful to a Mac when it's asleep or when it's shut down?

Yes. And so are power DROPS.

That is why it's a REALLY good idea to invest in an Uninterruptible Power Supply unit. It "smoothes out" the flow of electricity to your machine and will literally add years of life to the components.

_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #3 - Posted 2001/05/21 - Brian Barjenbruch

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

Previously,

Are there any ways that my Mac (an iMac DV SE, running OSX 10.0.3) could spontaneously wake itself up from sleep when I'm not around?

Yes. Fax software set to auto-answer could wake up a sleeping machine, so could any sort of network activity (even a stray signal from one's cable modem).

Would something like a power surge, or cable modem activity, do this?

Yes.

Are power surges more harmful to a Mac when it's asleep or when it's shut down?

Yes. And so are power DROPS.

Thought so. Looks like it's still Shut Down for the moment.

That is why it's a REALLY good idea to invest in an Uninterruptible Power Supply unit. It "smoothes out" the flow of electricity to your machine and will literally add years of life to the components.

Will such a thing prevent the Mac from spontaneously waking itself up such as you just described it might do? That's my main concern.

If my Mac suddenly turns itself on when I'm asleep or at work, couldn't it burn in the screen? I could prevent that with Energy Saver, or whatever OS X's equivalent is, but the same activity that you showed could wake a Mac up, might it not also prevent Energy Saver from kicking in?

"If you find yourself alone, riding through green fields with the sun on your face, do not be troubled, for you are in Elysium, and are already dead." - Maximus Decimus Meridius, 'Gladiator'

Message #4 - Posted 2001/05/21 - John W. Baxter

Previously, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

If my Mac suddenly turns itself on when I'm asleep or at work, couldn't it burn in the screen? I could prevent that with Energy Saver, or whatever OS X's equivalent is, but the same activity that you showed could wake a Mac up, might it not also prevent Energy Saver from kicking in?

Next time you have the solid gray (or grey) screen during startup, look carefully near the top.

Do you see anything like a burned in menubar? Remember, that area (in a stock Mac pre Mac OS X) is solid white except for some black letters and the apple logo...the latter move around except for the Apple, File, and Edit. And the menu bar is showing for several hours a day if you use your Mac several hours a day.

If you don't see a burned in menubar, then a few hours after an unneeded wake from sleep is unlikely to burn anything into the screen.

On 1970s monitors, it would have.

--John

Message #5 - Posted 2001/05/21 - Matthew Russotto

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

Yes. And so are power DROPS.

I've found that Macs can put up with a LOT of crappy power. I've seen my Mac run with no problems when the voltage was down to 80 volts with long sags to 50V -- my external modem wouldn't work under those conditions. Brownouts which cause the TV image to shrink, lights to blink, and even some clocks to reset don't seem to bother any Mac I've had. This is when operating, not when asleep.

That is why it's a REALLY good idea to invest in an Uninterruptible Power Supply unit. It "smoothes out" the flow of electricity to your machine and will literally add years of life to the components.

A cheap switching UPS (like pretty much all of them) does nothing of the sort. The machine runs off A/C (surge suppressed, if you're lucky) most of the time, not the inverter.

Matthew T. Russotto russotto@pond.com "Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice, and moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue."

Message #6 - Posted 2001/05/21 - Andy Hewitt

Charles Martin wrote:

<snipped text>

Another factor to consider: processors and power supplies and other components are rated by mean time before failure, an "average" number of hours they can be expected to operate before they die a heat death.

Of course, there's also the possibly of damage due to 'heat cycling' too.

** Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1 'It's better burn out, than fade away' Mac G3/400, Diversion 600s, Trekky, Honda Concerto EX
*Web page update - 03/01* http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ahewitt/index.htm

Message #7 - Posted 2001/05/21 - Mark Haase

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

Another factor to consider: processors and power supplies and other components are rated by mean time before failure, an "average" number of hours they can be expected to operate before they die a heat death.

If your machine is sleeping, it's still adding up those hours. This is all
hypothetical mind you.

I'm not to familiar with how newer macs work, but when the computer goes into deep sleep, doesn't the processor power down, along with the HDs and so forth? I was under the impression that the only things like the RAM, cache, registers, etc. needed juice to stay refreshed.

+===-=--=---=--=-===+===-=--=---=--=-===+

\/| /| |2 |< savar@email.com

http://MacHelp.ath.cx <-- Come By!

+===-=--=---=--=-===+===-=--=---=--=-===+

Message #8 - Posted 2001/05/21 - Patrick James

On Mon, 21 May 2001 7:05:29 +0100, Brian Barjenbruch wrote (in message <210520010105281345%brianb1@home.com>):

I'm curious. Which is it generally a better thing to do, when I'm not using my Mac for extended periods of time (such as when I'm asleep or at work): Shut it down, or put it to sleep?

I think you should do whatever you feel like doing :)

Some people might have strong views on this but personally I think it's pretty well six of one and half a dozen of the other really.

For my part I usually shut down the Mac when I go to bed, but not always. It's on everyday and it just goes to sleep after half an hour of no use.

Patrick

Nisus Writer - *Powerful* Word Processor

Message #9 - Posted 2001/05/22 - Paul McGrane

Previously, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

Will such a thing prevent the Mac from spontaneously waking itself up such as you just described it might do? That's my main concern.

If my Mac suddenly turns itself on when I'm asleep or at work, couldn't it burn in the screen? I could prevent that with Energy Saver, or whatever OS X's equivalent is, but the same activity that you showed could wake a Mac up, might it not also prevent Energy Saver from kicking in?

You don't need to baby it, the Mac can take care of itself.

Don't bother with a screensaver, just set the monitor to turn off after about ten minutes.

I've never heard of fluctuating power waking a Mac up from sleep. Sure if the Mac's on and you get brownouts, that's probably not healthy for the electronics, but I've seen Macs live through years of such events. If the power goes out while your Mac is on, well that sucks, but it's hardly different from the daily crashes one gets in OS 9 anyway. If the power goes out while the Mac is asleep, it's probably less stressful since the hard drive is probably parked and not active (IMO the biggest worry from unexpected power outages is hard disk corruption).

My Blue G3 has been on nearly constantly for two years and it still works. I like being able to sit down at it and start doing things, rather than wait for an interminable startup (with OS 9, that would happen too often anyway!).

Sometimes I'll put it to sleep if the noise gets too much, but especially at college I appreciated being able to log in and get files over the network at any time. Plus the Mac is a handy stereo component and sleep stops SoundJam or iTunes ;^)

Frankly, if leaving the Mac on 24/7 means it will die after ten years rather than twenty, I don't think you've lost much.

...Paul McGrane

Message #10 - Posted 2001/05/22 - John W. Baxter

Previously, Paul McGrane wrote:

hardly different from the daily crashes one gets in OS 9 anyway

What daily crashes. I don't think I've had one this month.

--John

Message #11 - Posted 2001/05/22 - ZnU

Previously, Andy Hewitt wrote:

Charles Martin wrote:

<snipped text>

Another factor to consider: processors and power supplies and other components are rated by mean time before failure, an "average" number of hours they can be expected to operate before they die a heat death.

Of course, there's also the possibly of damage due to 'heat cycling' too.

Basically, both arguments are nonsense. I have a Mac that has been on essentially all the time since '93, and it's still fine. And this is an old building, with slightly screwy power. I have a PowerBook from around the same time that has been in and out of deep sleep multiple times a day (which will cause almost as much heat change as powering up and down), and it too is still fine.

It just isn't an issue with modern computers. Use the thing in whatever way you find convenient. If your logic board dies or a DIMM goes bad, chances are it was a sub-standard part to begin with.

ALL YOUR UNIX ARE BELONG TO US.

ZnU <znu@userhosting.com>

Message #12 - Posted 2001/05/22 - w_tom

Another example of a harmful power drop would be to power off. Power off is brownout as input capacitors discharge. With every powers off, the Mac is subject to potential damage from the resulting brownout.

Except that poweroff is not destructive. Why? Because brownouts and other power drops are not destructive to electronic hardware. The Mac, like most every electronic appliance, works just fine from 130 VAC to 90 VAC. Many electronics are only speced to 90 VAC but have operated as low as 65 VAC. Unfortunately the net is full of those who feel something is a problem before they learn how it works. All these destructive animals don't exist.

Same is true of this UPS recommendation. Matthew Russotto has quite accurately identified how crappy power is not the problem of urban legend and accurately defined how a computer adjacent UPS really works. The UPS connects a Mac directly to AC power when not in battery backup mode AND provides even dirtier power when in that battery backup mode. Technically they are not really UPSes, but only battery backup switchable power supplies. Furthermore they offer surge protection only from surges that typically don't exist.

Power drops don't create problems since if they did, then Mac would be damaged when powered off. UPSes do don't provide any special protection from surges or brownout damage - they only protect from data loss created by blackout and brownout problems. They are not effective protection from destructive surges.

Charles Martin wrote:

Previously, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

Are power surges more harmful to a Mac when it's asleep or when it's shut down?

Yes. And so are power DROPS.

That is why it's a REALLY good idea to invest in an Uninterruptible Power Supply unit. It "smoothes out" the flow of electricity to your machine and will literally add years of life to the components.

Message #13 - Posted 2001/05/22 - Andy Hewitt

ZnU wrote:

Previously, Andy Hewitt wrote:

Charles Martin wrote:

<snipped text>

Another factor to consider: processors and power supplies and other components are rated by mean time before failure, an "average" number of hours they can be expected to operate before they die a heat death.

Of course, there's also the possibly of damage due to 'heat cycling' too.

Basically, both arguments are nonsense. I have a Mac that has been on essentially all the time since '93, and it's still fine. And this is an old building, with slightly screwy power. I have a PowerBook from around the same time that has been in and out of deep sleep multiple times a day (which will cause almost as much heat change as powering up and down), and it too is still fine.

As far as Macs go, that really isn't proving anything, there are still a very large proportion of Macs in use that have been made. The possibility of either scenario is real nonetheless. FWIW we still have a perfectly working Mac IIci in the family that was made around 1991.

It just isn't an issue with modern computers. Use the thing in whatever way you find convenient. If your logic board dies or a DIMM goes bad, chances are it was a sub-standard part to begin with.

Indeed.

** Andy Hewitt ** FAF#1 'It's better burn out, than fade away' Mac G3/400, Diversion 600s, Trekky, Honda Concerto EX
*Web page update - 03/01* http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ahewitt/index.htm

Message #14 - Posted 2001/05/23 - Charles Martin

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

Are power surges more harmful to a Mac when it's asleep or when it's shut down?

Yes. And so are power DROPS.

Well, that wasn't very helpful, was it? :)

Sorry ... I meant to say that YES, power surges are harmful to a Mac when it's asleep. I should think a power surge couldn't harm a Mac when it's shut down, but perhaps a near-direct strike would prove me wrong. --
_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #15 - Posted 2001/05/23 - Charles Martin

Previously, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

That is why it's a REALLY good idea to invest in an Uninterruptible Power Supply unit. It "smoothes out" the flow of electricity to your machine and will literally add years of life to the components.

Will such a thing prevent the Mac from spontaneously waking itself up such as you just described it might do?

IF that's the cause, then yes. If it's not, then no.

As I said in my previous post, there are other things that can cause a Mac to wake up from sleep, like fax activity or network activity.

If my Mac suddenly turns itself on when I'm asleep or at work, couldn't it burn in the screen?

No. Computer CRTs made in the last 10 years at least do not suffer from "burn-in."

_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #16 - Posted 2001/05/23 - Charles Martin

Previously, John W. Baxter wrote:

Previously, Paul McGrane wrote:

hardly different from the daily crashes one gets in OS 9 anyway

What daily crashes. I don't think I've had one this month.

Add me to that list. OS 9.1 is the most stable MacOS I've *ever* used, and I've been on the Mac since 1986. Barring an extension conflict or a faulty program (memory leak), you should be able to go for days if not weeks between crashes.

_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #17 - Posted 2001/05/23 - w_tom

Actually an adjacent power strip or UPS surge protector can complete a circuit that surge damages a powered off computer. Remember, a surge protector only shunts (shorts or diverts) a surge from one wire to all others. Now the surge is trying to get into the Mac on all three AC wires. Thanks to an adjacent power strip surge protector - not connected short to a good earth ground - the surge enters a Mac via the green safety wire. The surge seeks earth ground. One excellent earth ground is on the phone line via motherboard and modem. An adjacent surge protector has contributed to powered off computer damage.

The only effective surge protection is located at the service entrance - to shunt a surge to earth ground before it can get near a Mac or any other household electronics.

Charles Martin wrote:

Previously, Charles Martin wrote:

Sorry ... I meant to say that YES, power surges are harmful to a Mac when it's asleep. I should think a power surge couldn't harm a Mac when it's shut down, but perhaps a near-direct strike would prove me wrong.

Message #18 - Posted 2001/05/26 - Wally

Previously, Patrick James wrote:

On Mon, 21 May 2001 7:05:29 +0100, Brian Barjenbruch wrote (in message <210520010105281345%brianb1@home.com>):

I'm curious. Which is it generally a better thing to do, when I'm not using my Mac for extended periods of time (such as when I'm asleep or at work): Shut it down, or put it to sleep?

I think you should do whatever you feel like doing :)

Some people might have strong views on this but personally I think it's pretty well six of one and half a dozen of the other really.

For my part I usually shut down the Mac when I go to bed, but not always. It's on everyday and it just goes to sleep after half an hour of no use.

I beleive Apple's recommendation these days is to let it sleep. At home I turn it off and unplug it, especially during the spring and summer. This is mainly due to thunderstorms. At work I leave them asleep, although I do restart the computer as I leave for the day. OS 9 tends to run into trouble if you don't restart every once and a while. With my portable which I have OS X on I always leave it in sleep mode because it comes back to life so fast. I've had OS X up for about three weeks now with very few crashes and no crashes that required me to reboot, I had to restart three weeks ago because it ran out of battery power while in sleep mode during a three day weekend.

Message #19 - Posted 2001/05/26 - zoara

Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

But now I hear about people who NEVER shut their Macs down,

I'm one of them - even more so with OSX. If I just do a "last" command at the terminal I see that since I installed it on April 5th, I've had thirteen restarts. Only one was due to a crash, the others were software updates or dicking around with Airport admin (which only works in Classic)

and I wonder why they do this.

Laziness?

Seriously though, when I want to use my iBook I open the lid and start using it. No waiting at all (unless I'm using Classic/OS9, in which case I wait about 5 seconds). Much better than waiting for the startup sequence to do its thing.

This means if I just want to enter some finance changes for the day (for example) I just open the lid, type them in and close. Takes all of 30 seconds. And it doesn't matter whether I last used my computer ten minutes, hours or days ago.

-zoara-

-- Windows has detected a random error. This error
-- occurs once in a while. Please wait.
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Message #20 - Posted 2001/06/08 - Eric P. Peterson

Previously, zoara wrote:

Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

But now I hear about people who NEVER shut their Macs down,

I'm one of them - even more so with OSX. If I just do a "last" command at the terminal I see that since I installed it on April 5th, I've had thirteen restarts. Only one was due to a crash, the others were software updates or dicking around with Airport admin (which only works in Classic)

and I wonder why they do this.

Laziness?

Seriously though, when I want to use my iBook I open the lid and start using it. No waiting at all (unless I'm using Classic/OS9, in which case I wait about 5 seconds). Much better than waiting for the startup sequence to do its thing.

This means if I just want to enter some finance changes for the day (for example) I just open the lid, type them in and close. Takes all of 30 seconds. And it doesn't matter whether I last used my computer ten minutes, hours or days ago.

-zoara-

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

Also, if I put my G4/450 to sleep from the keyboard, I always get a Finder unexpectedly quit message when I wake it up, and lose all navigation, forcing a restart (there is no fix for this, apparently). If I leave the system for more than ten minutes, the monitor blacks itself out (its idea of sleep?), but the HD doesn't spin down. I can then wake it up from the keyboard or mouse with no problems.

But that's just me ;)
Peace,
Eric

Message #21 - Posted 2001/06/08 - Reinier Jonker

Charles Martin wrote:

Previously, Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

I'm curious. Which is it generally a better thing to do, when I'm not using my Mac for extended periods of time (such as when I'm asleep or at work): Shut it down, or put it to sleep? If I expect to go back to the Mac within, say, an hour, I just make it sleep, but usually if I'm away for awhile, I shut it down. But now I hear about people who NEVER shut their Macs down, and I wonder why they do this. Should I do it too?

This is the Eternal Question in Mac circles, and before everyone jumps in with their opinion the truth of the matter is that there is NO one right answer.

For me PERSONALLY, Sleep makes sense if you're going to be away for short periods of time (an hour or two), but I usually Shut Down at the end of the day. If nothing else, this resets the system and clears out any memory leaks.

Under OS X, I could see myself just going to Sleep all the time.

Another factor to consider: processors and power supplies and other components are rated by mean time before failure, an "average" number of hours they can be expected to operate before they die a heat death.

If your machine is sleeping, it's still adding up those hours. This is all hypothetical mind you.

Are there any ways that my Mac (an iMac DV SE, running OSX 10.0.3) could spontaneously wake itself up from sleep when I'm not around?

Yes. Fax software set to auto-answer could wake up a sleeping machine, so could any sort of network activity (even a stray signal from one's cable modem).

Would something like a power surge, or cable modem activity, do this?

Yes.

Are power surges more harmful to a Mac when it's asleep or when it's shut down?

Yes. And so are power DROPS.

In the US power peaks would theretically only damage the power supply if the voltage gets above 250V. Most Macs auto-switch between regular 230V and US 120V. But I think this only counts when the Mac's off :-)

I don't think I've ever seen a power drop or peak in real life, so I don't know how this works in the real world :-) And in Holland there's 230V anyway.

By the way, I recently discovered the Mac Color Display officially works between 90V(!) and 270V(!).

Reinier Jonker, NL

In Microsoft language, a bug is called a feature.

Message #22 - Posted 2001/06/09 - DssW Support

Previously, Eric P. Peterson wrote:

Also, if I put my G4/450 to sleep from the keyboard, I always get a Finder unexpectedly quit message when I wake it up, and lose all navigation, forcing a restart (there is no fix for this, apparently). If I leave the system for more than ten minutes, the monitor blacks itself out (its idea of sleep?), but the HD doesn't spin down. I can then wake it up from the keyboard or mouse with no problems.

Sorry to hear about your power management problems. What OS version are you running? Have you tried turning off idle time display sleep?

You may find the log created by DssW Sleep Monitor useful. It is a free extension that produces a text based log file of when your Mac enters sleep, wakes up, starts up, shut down and also includes any changes to the energy saver settings that may occur. A sample extract is appended below.

You can download a free copy from <http://www.dssw.co.uk/>.

[Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:01:45 pm] Quit request received from Quit Process.app
[Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:01:45 pm] Stopping DssW Sleep Monitor [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:03:33 pm] Starting DssW Sleep Monitor [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:03:33 pm] System started up Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:02:26 pm
[Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:39:05 pm] Sleep request
[Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:39:09 pm] Sleep demand
[Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:53:26 pm] Sleep wake up
[Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:54:23 pm] System idle timeout set to 61 minutes [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:54:23 pm] System idle set to false [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:54:24 pm] Display idle timeout set to 9 minutes [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:54:24 pm] Hard drive idle timeout set to 31 minutes [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:54:24 pm] Processor cycling set to true [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:55:03 pm] System idle timeout set to 30 minutes [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:55:03 pm] System idle set to true
[Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:55:03 pm] Display idle timeout set to 10 minutes [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:55:03 pm] Hard drive idle timeout set to 30 minutes [Sun, Apr 29, 2001 6:55:03 pm] Processor cycling set to false

Yours sincerely,

DssW Support

support@dssw.co.uk

Macintosh Automation and Power Management Software
Dragon Systems Software Limited (DssW)
http://www.dssw.co.uk/support/

Message #23 - Posted 2001/06/09 - zoara

Eric P. Peterson wrote:

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

This is a good point, but are you aware how little energy a sleeping Mac uses? I can't remember the figures and don't want to go find them, but I think one 60W lightbulb is the equivalent of 10-20 sleeping Macs (hopefully someone will provide a correct figure). Considering that the yo-yo is 45W, then a portable model won't use more than three-quarters of a lightbulb's woth of electricity even when it's awake and running full whack.

And I heard that a TV on standby costs a couple of quid [1] to leave on PER YEAR. I'd expect a Mac in deep sleep would be about the same.

If we're talking saving money, then I'd happily sacrifice 2 pints of beer per year to pay for leaving my Mac on at all times...

But that's just me ;)

It's differing opinions that make the world go round :) So long as people try to remember that just cos one person prefers something doesn't mean that's the way everyone should do it. So if you prefer shutting off, who am I to say that's "wrong"? :)

-zoara-

[1] $3ish? That's with English power costs, so probably less for you lucky Americans... :)

-- Windows has detected a random error. This error
-- occurs once in a while. Please wait.
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Message #24 - Posted 2001/06/09 - Reinier Jonker

zoara wrote:

Eric P. Peterson wrote:

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

This is a good point, but are you aware how little energy a sleeping Mac uses? I can't remember the figures and don't want to go find them, but I think one 60W lightbulb is the equivalent of 10-20 sleeping Macs (hopefully someone will provide a correct figure).

The Dutch/German magazine C'T reported a Power Mac G4 uses 4 Watts in Sleep mode and 4 Watts when Shot Down. (is that correct English?)

Reinier Jonker, NL

In Microsoft language, a bug is called a feature.

Message #25 - Posted 2001/06/09 - Kevin Michael Vail

Previously, Reinier Jonker wrote:

The Dutch/German magazine C'T reported a Power Mac G4 uses 4 Watts in Sleep mode and 4 Watts when Shot Down. (is that correct English?)

Close, the words you want are "Shut Down". "Shot down" is what happens to planes in wartime.

It doesn't surprise me that it uses so little power, since as far as I know the only thing still active in sleep mode is the RAM contents.

Kevin Michael Vail | a billion stars go spinning through the night, kevin@vaildc.net | blazing high above your head.
. . . . . . . . . | But _in_ you is the presence that
. . . . . . . . . | will be, when all the stars are dead. (Rainer Maria Rilke)

Message #26 - Posted 2001/06/09 - zoara

Reinier Jonker wrote:

zoara wrote:

Eric P. Peterson wrote:

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

This is a good point, but are you aware how little energy a sleeping Mac uses? I can't remember the figures and don't want to go find them, but I think one 60W lightbulb is the equivalent of 10-20 sleeping Macs (hopefully someone will provide a correct figure).

The Dutch/German magazine C'T reported a Power Mac G4 uses 4 Watts in Sleep mode and 4 Watts when Shot Down. (is that correct English?)

Close - "Shut Down".

So it uses power even when turned off?

4 Watts means that 15 sleeping Macs [1] use the same power as a lightbulb. As do 15 turned off Macs, oddly enough (?!)

-zoara-

[1] Isn't that a lovely image? 15 Macs peacefully snoozing :)

-- Windows has detected a random error. This error
-- occurs once in a while. Please wait.
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Message #27 - Posted 2001/06/09 - Reinier Jonker

zoara wrote:

Reinier Jonker wrote:

zoara wrote:

Eric P. Peterson wrote:

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

This is a good point, but are you aware how little energy a sleeping Mac uses? I can't remember the figures and don't want to go find them, but I think one 60W lightbulb is the equivalent of 10-20 sleeping Macs (hopefully someone will provide a correct figure).

The Dutch/German magazine C'T reported a Power Mac G4 uses 4 Watts in Sleep mode and 4 Watts when Shot Down. (is that correct English?)

Close - "Shut Down".

So it uses power even when turned off?

4 Watts means that 15 sleeping Macs [1] use the same power as a lightbulb. As do 15 turned off Macs, oddly enough (?!)

That was a typing error. It uses 2 Watts when it's turned off.

Reinier Jonker

In Microsoft language, a bug is called a feature.

Message #28 - Posted 2001/06/10 - Andrew Glasgow

Previously, Eric P. Peterson wrote:

Previously, zoara wrote:

Brian Barjenbruch wrote:

But now I hear about people who NEVER shut their Macs down,

I'm one of them - even more so with OSX. If I just do a "last" command at the terminal I see that since I installed it on April 5th, I've had thirteen restarts. Only one was due to a crash, the others were software updates or dicking around with Airport admin (which only works in Classic)

and I wonder why they do this.

Laziness?

Seriously though, when I want to use my iBook I open the lid and start using it. No waiting at all (unless I'm using Classic/OS9, in which case I wait about 5 seconds). Much better than waiting for the startup sequence to do its thing.

This means if I just want to enter some finance changes for the day (for example) I just open the lid, type them in and close. Takes all of 30 seconds. And it doesn't matter whether I last used my computer ten minutes, hours or days ago.

-zoara-

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

Also, if I put my G4/450 to sleep from the keyboard, I always get a Finder unexpectedly quit message when I wake it up, and lose all navigation, forcing a restart (there is no fix for this, apparently). If I leave the system for more than ten minutes, the monitor blacks itself out (its idea of sleep?), but the HD doesn't spin down. I can then wake it up from the keyboard or mouse with no problems.

But that's just me ;)

Hmm. When I put my mac (Beige G3 running 9.1) to sleep, after it wakes up there is a delay in typing. I type quickly and letters appear on the screeen very slowly, like one every .25 or .5 seconds. Key repeats, like with arrow keys, do the same thing.

I turn off my monitor (or have it monitor-sleep) but leave my computer on. I figure it can't use that much energy.

--

Andrew Glasgow <amg39(at)cornell.edu> | SCSI is *NOT* magic. There are *fundamental technical | reasons* why it is necessary to sacrifice a young goat |
to your SCSI chain now and then. -- John Woods |

Message #29 - Posted 2001/06/10 - Charles Martin

Previously, Reinier Jonker wrote:

zoara wrote:

Eric P. Peterson wrote:

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

This is a good point, but are you aware how little energy a sleeping Mac uses? I can't remember the figures and don't want to go find them, but I think one 60W lightbulb is the equivalent of 10-20 sleeping Macs (hopefully someone will provide a correct figure).

The Dutch/German magazine C'T reported a Power Mac G4 uses 4 Watts in Sleep mode and 4 Watts when Shot Down. (is that correct English?)

No, but it's HIGHLY amusing!! :)

Essentially I think what C'T is trying to say is that the Mac uses about the same amount of power in Deep Sleep as it does when it's off (yes, it uses power when it's off ... so the PRAM battery doesn't have to be used). --
_Chas_
(non-spammers should use "chasm" at mac-dot-com instead of the email above!)

"Call me old-fashioned, but I want to read email with an email client, news with a newsreader, and browse with a browser. A Swiss army knife is no substitute for a toolbox." -- Kevin Craig, comp.sys.mac.apps

Message #30 - Posted 2001/06/10 - Reinier Jonker

Charles Martin wrote:

Previously, Reinier Jonker wrote:

zoara wrote:

Eric P. Peterson wrote:

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

This is a good point, but are you aware how little energy a sleeping Mac uses? I can't remember the figures and don't want to go find them, but I think one 60W lightbulb is the equivalent of 10-20 sleeping Macs (hopefully someone will provide a correct figure).

The Dutch/German magazine C'T reported a Power Mac G4 uses 4 Watts in Sleep mode and 4 Watts when Shot Down. (is that correct English?)

No, but it's HIGHLY amusing!! :)

Essentially I think what C'T is trying to say is that the Mac uses about the same amount of power in Deep Sleep as it does when it's off (yes, it uses power when it's off

I meant 2 Watts.

so the PRAM battery doesn't have to be used

That's not true, a lot of people have their Mac behind a power switch which they turn of when the Mac is 'off'. Without a PRAM battery, each time you took the plug out, you'd have to reset your clock!

I think the Mac uses his power when off to supply the keyboard startup-button.

Reinier Jonker

In Microsoft language, a bug is called a feature.

Message #31 - Posted 2001/06/11 - Rectus Dominus

Previously, Reinier Jonker wrote:

Essentially I think what C'T is trying to say is that the Mac uses about the same amount of power in Deep Sleep as it does when it's off (yes, it uses power when it's off

I meant 2 Watts.

so the PRAM battery doesn't have to be used

That's not true, a lot of people have their Mac behind a power switch which they turn of when the Mac is 'off'. Without a PRAM battery, each time you took the plug out, you'd have to reset your clock!

I think the Mac uses his power when off to supply the keyboard startup-button.

Reinier Jonker

When the Mac is turned off, it still uses some power for the PRAM. This helps to extend the life of the battery if the Mac is still plugged into a live outlet.

Rectus Dominus

Message #32 - Posted 2001/06/11 - Moyle

I have never had those problems that you're experiencing. Further, I don't think I've even heard of them. Maybe you should trash your System Folder (including all your Prefs), and start all over again. If this doesn't work, it might be hardware falure.

/moyle

Eric P. Peterson wrote:

The only thing that discourages me from keeping my Mac on, and just letting it sleep during disuse, is that it makes for a higher utility bill, and I always look for ways to shave as much off my PG&E bill as possible, while maintaining a minimum of comfort. Same reason I won't leave a light on when I'm not using it, etc.

Also, if I put my G4/450 to sleep from the keyboard, I always get a Finder unexpectedly quit message when I wake it up, and lose all navigation, forcing a restart (there is no fix for this, apparently). If I leave the system for more than ten minutes, the monitor blacks itself out (its idea of sleep?), but the HD doesn't spin down. I can then wake it up from the keyboard or mouse with no problems.

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