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will a Mac Book run w AC plugin but dead or no battery?

Message #1 - Posted 2008/09/26 - a question

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

Message #2 - Posted 2008/09/26 - Dave Balderstone

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

So why are you asking here?

I kill all messages, and replies to messages, from Google Groups. See http://improve-usenet.org for details.

Message #3 - Posted 2008/09/26 - a question

Previously, Dave Balderstone wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

So why are you asking here?

Hoping for an answer from a human being rather than a printed page, but I see that there is no chance of that here. Thanks.
One less reader for this dying newsgroup.

Message #4 - Posted 2008/09/26 - Dave Balderstone

Previously, a question wrote:

Previously, Dave Balderstone wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

So why are you asking here?

Hoping for an answer from a human being rather than a printed page, but I see that there is no chance of that here. Thanks.
One less reader for this dying newsgroup.

One more poster with the attention span of a mayfly...

The answer is, of course, yes. But if you actually have a MacBook you could have tested for yourself.

I kill all messages, and replies to messages, from Google Groups. See http://improve-usenet.org for details.

Message #5 - Posted 2008/09/26 - Jolly Roger

Previously, a question wrote:

Previously, Dave Balderstone wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

So why are you asking here?

Hoping for an answer from a human being rather than a printed page, but I see that there is no chance of that here. Thanks.
One less reader for this dying newsgroup.

The people who volunteer their free time here do have lives, despite what you may think. It's not like we wait here for you with nothing better to do. If you can't be bothered to lift a finger and exert the minimal energy required to do a simple web search, why should the rest of us clamor to do it for you?

Bye bye now.

Send responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

Message #6 - Posted 2008/09/26 - Mike Rosenberg

Jolly Roger wrote:

The people who volunteer their free time here do have lives...

We do???? Damn, I've gotta start reading the memos!

Oops, time to get ready to go out dancing...

I kill Google Groups posts. See http://improve-usenet.org for details. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude

Message #7 - Posted 2008/09/26 - Jolly Roger

Previously, Mike Rosenberg wrote:

Jolly Roger wrote:

The people who volunteer their free time here do have lives...

We do???? Damn, I've gotta start reading the memos!

Oops, time to get ready to go out dancing...

Knock 'em dead, Mike! : )

Send responses to the relevant news group rather than to me, as E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

Message #8 - Posted 2008/09/26 - Barry Margolin

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

I'm not sure about MacBook, but MacBook Pro requires a minimal charge in the battery. I accidentally drained my battery a couple of nights ago, and when I tried to start up the next morning I had to charge it for about 10 minutes before it would boot.

Barry Margolin, barmar@alum.mit.edu
Arlington, MA
*** PLEASE post questions in newsgroups, not directly to me *** *** PLEASE don't copy me on replies, I'll read them in the group ***

Message #9 - Posted 2008/09/28 - a question

Previously, Dave Balderstone wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Previously, Dave Balderstone wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

So why are you asking here?

Hoping for an answer from a human being rather than a printed page, but I see that there is no chance of that here. Thanks.
One less reader for this dying newsgroup.

One more poster with the attention span of a mayfly...

The answer is, of course, yes. But if you actually have a MacBook you could have tested for yourself.

The simple reason that I didn't "test" was that I didn't want to damage my MacBook by attempting to run it without a battery connected. As I've discovered from the web, AC fluctuations can damage components and using the AC power adapter only can cause overheating. There is plenty of info on the web and I found much more than I needed without snotty replies from those who are too intellectual to be bothered with simple questions.

http://batteryuniversity.com/

Message #10 - Posted 2008/09/28 - a question

Previously, Barry Margolin wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

I'm not sure about MacBook, but MacBook Pro requires a minimal charge in the battery. I accidentally drained my battery a couple of nights ago, and when I tried to start up the next morning I had to charge it for about 10 minutes before it would boot.

Thanks, Barry.

Message #11 - Posted 2008/09/28 - Dave Balderstone

Previously, a question wrote:

The simple reason that I didn't "test" was that I didn't want to damage my MacBook by attempting to run it without a battery connected. As I've discovered from the web, AC fluctuations can damage components and using the AC power adapter only can cause overheating. There is plenty of info on the web and I found much more than I needed without snotty replies from those who are too intellectual to be bothered with simple questions.

And yet you began the thread on a snotty note, telling everyone that you were capable of checking for the info on the web, just unwilling to.

Perhaps this site will be of some utility to you:

<http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

I kill all messages, and replies to messages, from Google Groups. See http://improve-usenet.org for details.

Message #12 - Posted 2008/09/28 - Mike Rosenberg

a question wrote:

Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web.

Honestly, what kind of responses did you think this statement would lead to? When you said you're going to check up on the answers you get, you told us two things:

1. You know how to find exactly what you're looking for in the first place, so why should someone put in the effort for you?

2. You're not going to trust the answers you get, and you're going to put in that effort anyway, so why no just do it in the first place and not cause a ruckus?

I kill Google Groups posts. See http://improve-usenet.org for details. <http://designsbymike.net/shop/mac.cgi> Mac and geek T-shirts & gifts <http://designsbymike.net/shop/prius.cgi> Prius shirts/bumper stickers <http://designsbymike.net/shop/greet.cgi> Holiday cards with attitude

Message #13 - Posted 2008/09/28 - Victor

On Sep 26, 11:18=A0am, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? =A0 Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. =A0:^)

Yes. This is what Best Buy does to their laptop displays (Macbook and Macbook Pro) because of battery theft. It should run just fine.

Message #14 - Posted 2008/09/29 - a question

Previously, Dave Balderstone wrote:

<http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html>

Thanks, Dave, but the last thing I have time for is a lengthy discourse on Usenet procedure and netiquette. I'm capable of being a very nice guy. But, I've come to expect smarty answers to simple questions and I was protecting myself, I thought.
Since the Mac Book battery is a lithium-ion, it works well when plugged into AC constantly, it doesn't require the regular discharge and recharge cycle conditioning of nickel-based batteries and it protects the system from AC spikes or drops when it is connected to the system by keeping a steady flow of current. So, I think I'll leave it in since lithium-ion is more subject to age failure than over or undercharge failure.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Message #15 - Posted 2008/09/29 - Florian Zschocke

Barry Margolin <barmar@alum.mit.edu> schrieb:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

I'm not sure about MacBook, but MacBook Pro requires a minimal charge in the battery. I accidentally drained my battery a couple of nights ago, and when I tried to start up the next morning I had to charge it for about 10 minutes before it would boot.

Also, the most elder Powerbooks show this behavior.
If you don't have a battery you can overcome this with a complete power drain (plug off, remove battery, press power button 10 sec). After a power drain, most of them will power on. Only a very few really need a minimum of charge in the battery. I also was able to start these few without a battery when I also removed the backup battery.

Florian

Message #16 - Posted 2008/09/30 - James Sidbury

Previously, a question wrote:

Thanks, Dave, but the last thing I have time for is a lengthy discourse on Usenet procedure and netiquette. I'm capable of being a very nice guy. But, I've come to expect smarty answers to simple questions and I was protecting myself, I thought.

Then you're an idiot. I don't mean this in a bad way but how could you possibly think that telling someone that they had better give you a straight answer because you were going to check on them is a way of protecting yourself? It seemed to me that you were being very confrontational and that's not the way to get answers.

dick
-- that's one reason that I didn't answer your question.

Message #17 - Posted 2008/10/10 - Mark Shapiro

Also, the most elder Powerbooks show this behavior. If you don't have a battery you can overcome this with a complete power drain (plug off, remove battery, press power button 10 sec). After a power drain, most of them will power on. Only a very few really need a minimum of charge in the battery. I also was able to start these few without a battery when I also removed the backup battery.

Yes, the Pismo will boot with no batteries at all.
Most will boot that way - the newer ones need the
full discharge (power button held down a while with
no paper souce to discharge the internal capacitors and such) for a longer period than the old ones.

http://www.JudgmentBuy.com http://www.TheTruthAboutHemp.com

Message #18 - Posted 2008/11/08 - Licksan

On 2008-09-26 17:18:15 +0100, a question said:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

Yes, works fine on AC power with a dead battery. You can remove the battery completely too and it will still work fine.

Message #19 - Posted 2008/11/12 - Steven Fisher

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

Yes.

But if you can always verify the answer on the web, why didn't you just look for it there?

Message #20 - Posted 2008/11/13 - aaron.w

Previously, Licksan wrote:

On 2008-09-26 17:18:15 +0100, a question said:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed?

Yes, works fine on AC power with a dead battery. You can remove the battery completely too and it will still work fine.

However MacOS will limit the clockspeed of the MacBook, since otherwise it may draw to much current. There is technote at Apple commenting on this. It seems that the poweradapter is not able to provide peak current for the system running on full speed.

But this is no issue unless you do some very processor intensive tasks - which would run somewhat slower. I am writing this on a MacBook with battery removed. I do this for extending battery life.

In my first iBook the LiIon cells died exactly 3 yrs after production. I always kept the battery in the book and it was most of the time fully charged hanging on the power-adapter. LiIon cells live longest when kept cool and at approx. 45% charge. Every one or 2 month you should decharge (i.e. use up the battery in your laptop) and recharge the battery. Also never store a LiIon fully drained. That is what I do with my battery and until now it doesn't show any degradation.

Regards A.

Message #21 - Posted 2008/11/13 - nospam

Previously, aaron.w wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed?

Yes, works fine on AC power with a dead battery. You can remove the battery completely too and it will still work fine.

However MacOS will limit the clockspeed of the MacBook, since otherwise it may draw to much current. There is technote at Apple commenting on this. It seems that the poweradapter is not able to provide peak current for the system running on full speed.

what technote is that??

the ac power adapter can provide enough current to run the computer and charge the battery (the airline adapter is an annoying exception).

Message #22 - Posted 2008/11/13 - Rob McCleave

Previously, Steven Fisher wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

Yes.

But if you can always verify the answer on the web, why didn't you just look for it there?

Because it's Steve Jobs in disguise checking for misinformation on the web.

Shhhh....

Message #23 - Posted 2008/11/26 - Steven Fisher

Previously, nospam wrote:

Previously, aaron.w wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed?

Yes, works fine on AC power with a dead battery. You can remove the battery completely too and it will still work fine.

However MacOS will limit the clockspeed of the MacBook, since otherwise it may draw to much current. There is technote at Apple commenting on this. It seems that the poweradapter is not able to provide peak current for the system running on full speed.

what technote is that??

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2332

Message #24 - Posted 2008/11/27 - nospam

Previously, Steven Fisher wrote:

However MacOS will limit the clockspeed of the MacBook, since otherwise it may draw to much current. There is technote at Apple commenting on this. It seems that the poweradapter is not able to provide peak current for the system running on full speed.

what technote is that??

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2332

it's been reported on several of the mac sites since the time i posted that. i'm just as stunned now as i was when i first read it.

it makes very little sense. in normal operation, there's more than enough power to not only run the computer but to *also* charge the battery. removing the battery means the power that would have gone to the battery can now be used for the cpu, so there's actually *more* power available when running without a battery, not less.

if the computer requires the battery to supply additional power for peak demands then the included power adapter is too weak to be used with the computer. what happens if the battery has been depleted, yet installed, and the computer needs the extra power? where's it going to come from?

in other words, apple is shipping inferior power adapters and is trying to spin it as a feature.

Message #25 - Posted 2008/11/27 - Fred McKenzie

Previously, nospam wrote:

removing the battery means the power that would have gone to the battery can now be used for the cpu, so there's actually *more* power available when running without a battery, not less.

Averaged over several seconds, that is most likely correct. However the reference is to peak current, which might occur for a short time on the order of a fraction of a second.

The battery is like a large capacitor, in that it is capable of supplying very high peak currents for a short time, and recharging over the longer time between peaks.

Fred

Message #26 - Posted 2008/11/27 - nospam

Previously, Fred McKenzie wrote:

The battery is like a large capacitor, in that it is capable of supplying very high peak currents for a short time, and recharging over the longer time between peaks.

if apple designed it so that the battery is *needed* for peak use, then that's a stupid design and *confirms* the fact that apple is shipping an underpowered power adapter.

what happens if the battery is dead but installed? where's the boost going to come from?

Message #27 - Posted 2008/11/29 - Fred McKenzie

Previously, nospam wrote:

if apple designed it so that the battery is *needed* for peak use, then that's a stupid design and *confirms* the fact that apple is shipping an underpowered power adapter.

what happens if the battery is dead but installed? where's the boost going to come from?

The MacBook was designed to work with a battery installed. If the battery is dead or removed, that is a fault condition. Reduced speed is a small sacrifice.

You might be able to adapt a Mac Mini power adapter to work with the MacBook if you plan to continue operating without a battery. But why not just get a Mac Mini to start with?

Fred

Message #28 - Posted 2008/11/29 - nospam

Previously, Fred McKenzie wrote:

if apple designed it so that the battery is *needed* for peak use, then that's a stupid design and *confirms* the fact that apple is shipping an underpowered power adapter.

what happens if the battery is dead but installed? where's the boost going to come from?

The MacBook was designed to work with a battery installed. If the battery is dead or removed, that is a fault condition. Reduced speed is a small sacrifice.

except that according to apple, it *doesn't* reduce the speed when there's a discharged battery installed.

You might be able to adapt a Mac Mini power adapter to work with the MacBook if you plan to continue operating without a battery. But why not just get a Mac Mini to start with?

uh, because a macbook is far more portable? let me know how well a mac mini works for you on an airplane. plus, the mac mini hasn't been updated in a *long time* and is very outdated.

as for more power, one could use an 85w macbook pro adapter with a macbook that normally uses the 60w adapter. since magsafe reports the capacity to the mac, (that's how the airline adapter knows to not charge the battery, another stupid choice), it should know it has additional power available. however, it does not appear that the macbook would run at full speed in that situation.

Message #29 - Posted 2008/12/01 - Fred McKenzie

Previously, nospam wrote:

The MacBook was designed to work with a battery installed. If the battery is dead or removed, that is a fault condition. Reduced speed is a small sacrifice.

except that according to apple, it *doesn't* reduce the speed when there's a discharged battery installed.

If it is a good battery, just discharged, it should quickly gain enough charge from the AC power adapter, to support momentary current peaks. If you have no battery or a defective battery, then the adapter may not have sufficient capacitance on its output to support current peaks much higher than its current rating.

Are you sure Apple's airline adapter won't charge the battery? I have a non-Apple airline adapter that came with a connector to use with an automobile lighter outlet. It has the correct connection for my G4 Powerbook, and charges my battery even while the computer is operating.

Before I found the airline adapter, I used a Radio Shack 300 watt, 12 volt DC-to-AC inverter with the PowerBook's AC adapter. However, the inverter's AC waveform is not a pure sinewave. This results in the AC adapter getting somewhat hotter than normal.

Fred

Message #30 - Posted 2008/11/30 - nospam

Previously, Fred McKenzie wrote:

If you have no battery or a defective battery, then the adapter may not have sufficient capacitance on its output to support current peaks much higher than its current rating.

that's what i'm saying. it's underpowered.

Are you sure Apple's airline adapter won't charge the battery?

yes, it says so in the specs. won't work in a car either.

<http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB441Z/A>

I have a
non-Apple airline adapter that came with a connector to use with an automobile lighter outlet. It has the correct connection for my G4 Powerbook, and charges my battery even while the computer is operating.

i do too, but that's for a powerbook where apple didn't have its clutches on a proprietary magsafe connector which they refuse to license to anyone. thus, your only option is paying $49 (originally $59) for what's basically nothing more than a cable with an apple proprietary plug. similar cables for powerbooks/ibooks were $15.

Before I found the airline adapter, I used a Radio Shack 300 watt, 12 volt DC-to-AC inverter with the PowerBook's AC adapter. However, the inverter's AC waveform is not a pure sinewave. This results in the AC adapter getting somewhat hotter than normal.

i've considered an inverter, but i don't want to deal with all the cables. 300w is also overkill since there's only 75w available on an airline power port.

Message #31 - Posted 2008/12/01 - Jolly Roger

Previously, nospam wrote:

Previously, Fred McKenzie wrote:

Are you sure Apple's airline adapter won't charge the battery?

yes, it says so in the specs. won't work in a car either.

<http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB441Z/A>

We just grabbed one of these for long road trips:

<http://preview.tinyurl.com/6heq7y>

Works great!

Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

Message #32 - Posted 2008/12/01 - Fred McKenzie

Previously, Jolly Roger wrote:

We just grabbed one of these for long road trips:

<http://preview.tinyurl.com/6heq7y>

Works great!

JR-

At the right side of that page, there is listed a "Universal Car and Airplane 120-watt Inverter".

Fred

Message #33 - Posted 2008/12/01 - Jolly Roger

Previously, Fred McKenzie wrote:

Previously, Jolly Roger wrote:

We just grabbed one of these for long road trips:

<http://preview.tinyurl.com/6heq7y>

Works great!

JR-

At the right side of that page, there is listed a "Universal Car and Airplane 120-watt Inverter".

Fred

Neat. Thanks.

Send responses to the relevant news group rather than email to me. E-mail sent to this address may be devoured by my very hungry SPAM filter. Due to Google's refusal to prevent spammers from posting messages through their servers, I often ignore posts from Google Groups. Use a real news client if you want me to see your posts.

JR

Message #34 - Posted 2008/12/06 - a question

Previously, Steven Fisher wrote:

Previously, a question wrote:

Will a Mac Book run with the AC adapter plugged into the wall socket if the battery is no longer working or if the battery is removed? Serious answers only please - I can always verify them with Apple or on the Web. :^)

Yes.

But if you can always verify the answer on the web, why didn't you just look for it there?

No offense intended. I haven't been around in a while. I stated that, with a smiley, because there are malicious trolls who hang around pretending to be Mac users that are just out to see someone botch up their computer. Since, I've discovered that a Mac Book battery will last about the same time whether it is used or not and it is just as well, maybe better, to keep it constantly on charge rather than to let it keep discharging and using up charge cycles, so I might as well leave it plugged in. Actually, if it goes down completely for too long, it may not come back fully.

Message #35 - Posted 2008/12/08 - Steven Fisher

Previously, a question wrote:

Previously, Steven Fisher wrote:

But if you can always verify the answer on the web, why didn't you just look for it there?

No offense intended.

None was taken. It just seemed strange enough that I thought I'd ask.

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